Hondo (1954)

There are 182 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 135,543 times. The latest Post () was by OriginalMexicanBob.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

  • Quote

    Now for the not so good news. The movie is in widescreen format.


    Hondo was filmed and composed for widescreen and shown that way in theaters, though it was protected for 1:37 Academy ratio for smaller theaters that hadn't yet made the changeover to wider screen. When it showed up on TV and on standard DVD, it was shown in 1:37, which is how people are used to seeing it, unless they saw it in 1:85 back in the early 50s.


    There is a bit more information now ADDED to the sides of the film in its Blu-ray widescreen version. Opening the matte for a fullscreen version cuts a little off on the sides -- that little bit is now restored -- or almost all restored, as apparently this Blu-ray is 1:78 rather than 1:85. But still... there is more information on the sides than in the fullscreen version.


    Although it is 1:78 rather than 1:85, the new Blu-ray is much closer to the way we're supposed to see it than the fullscreen version -- though without the 3D.


    This is from an article about Hondo by Bob Furmanek, a film historian who has conducted extensive research into the changeover of 1:37 Academy ratio to the various widescreen formats in the early 1950s, and also 3D:


    "On May 19, Jack Warner announced the new All-Media Camera, a camera designed to shoot in any format-- black and white or color, 3-D and/or widescreen, or flat. The rig was designed and built by the studios camera department, and would be utilized for the first time on HONDO. Cinematographers Robert Burks and Archie Stout would be shooting on location, in 3-D and widescreen. Films shot with the All-Media rig were composed for the aspect ratio of 1.85:1."


    Here is a link to the entire article:


    http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/hondo-3-d-release


    Here are comparison shots of the DVD and the Blu-ray. Note that there is more information on the sides and see how much closer the widescreen version puts you to the actor on screen? It's a much more interesting shot this way -- there is too much sky in the fullscreen version and in the widescreen version you're closer to Page, she's positioned more correctly in the frame, and she seems much more part of the landscape. It's a far more dramatic composition in the widescreen version. And you do see more of the landscape since there is a bit more info on the sides.



    Edited 4 times, last by Paula ().

  • Aspect ratios are always something of interest to me. :)


    Now if Hondo had been shot in an anamorphic process, like Cinemascope or Panavision, then a fullscreen version would not result from opening the mattes, but from cutting off about a third of the picture from each side, resulting in the viewer seeing only the center third. While I'm not a fan of open mattes, as I think they can wreak havoc with composition, pan and scan is far far worse. However, Hondo in full screen is not pan and scan, it's open matte, so you're basically getting more rather than less. Though with open matte, more is not necessarily a good thing. ;)


    MGM has been releasing a lot of 50s films which were shot flat in open matte, because they can't be bothered to spend the money to do a new widescreen transfer from whatever original elements they have. Because of this policy, I haven't bought quite a few titles I would have otherwise been interested in. But they do release anamorphic shot films in widescreen, thank goodness.

  • Aspect ratios are always something of interest to me. :)


    Now if Hondo had been shot in an anamorphic process, like Cinemascope or Panavision, then a fullscreen version would not result from opening the mattes, but from cutting off about a third of the picture from each side, resulting in the viewer seeing only the center third. While I'm not a fan of open mattes, as I think they can wreak havoc with composition, pan and scan is far far worse. However, Hondo in full screen is not pan and scan, it's open matte, so you're basically getting more rather than less. Though with open matte, more is not necessarily a good thing. ;)


    MGM has been releasing a lot of 50s films which were shot flat in open matte, because they can't be bothered to spend the money to do a new widescreen transfer from whatever original elements they have. Because of this policy, I haven't bought quite a few titles I would have otherwise been interested in. But they do release anamorphic shot films in widescreen, thank goodness.


    Paula,
    I have to ask, sorry if you've said before, but what is your background?
    Your posts have been fascinating and hugely informative for me, and everyone else I'm sure, and being somewhat of a cinephile you talk about the aspects, pun intended, that really interest me.

    "Pour yourself some backbone and shut up!"

  • Dooley, I work in a job that has nothing to do with film and in fact -- I've never even taken a film course! I am just a hardcore film buff who is interested in the technical aspects of films and have educated myself -- a little bit. Which means, I know a bit more than the average person on the street but very, very little compared to the professional film historians and filmmakers. Thanks to the internet, I can find the experts' posts and read up on whatever question I may have so if I post something myself, I am pretty sure I'm being accurate. If I'm not sure, I will say so or just not post. There are also many books available that the layperson can read to learn about the technical side of filmmaking. I am very grateful that folks like Bob Furmanek contribute online and have web pages which are a great help to the amateur film lovers like myself, and also for all the authors out there whose books have been so helpful. ;)

    Edited once, last by Paula ().

  • Paula, that's as good a description of how 1.85:1 widescreen works as I've ever read. Good job!


    It's interesting in Hondo how with some of the landscape cropped from the full-frame shots, we actually notice those landscapes more! It's quite obvious that the picture was composed to be seen this way.

  • Dooley, I work in a job that has nothing to do with film and in fact -- I've never even taken a film course! I am just a hardcore film buff who is interested in the technical aspects of films and have educated myself -- a little bit. Which means, I know a bit more than the average person on the street but very, very little compared to the professional film historians and filmmakers. Thanks to the internet, I can find the experts' posts and read up on whatever question I may have so if I post something myself, I am pretty sure I'm being accurate. If I'm not sure, I will say so or just not post. There are also many books available that the layperson can read to learn about the technical side of filmmaking. I am very grateful that folks like Bob Furmanek contribute online and have web pages which are a great help to the amateur film lovers like myself, and also for all the authors out there whose books have been so helpful. ;)


    Hi Paula, thanks for the info, glad to hear there are others out there who are hardcore film buffs!
    I too read a huge amount on behind the scenes and often discover films I've never heard of in the process.
    I haven't quite got into sourcing stuff on the Internet, this being the first forum I've actually joined and interacted on.
    Keep up the interesting posts, you have an eager audience on here!

    "Pour yourself some backbone and shut up!"

  • Dear friends,


    I just recently heard about this site and wanted to join and say hello. It looks like a great place to discuss Mr. Wayne and his incredible body of work.


    I appreciate many of the nice comments about my 3-D research and restoration efforts. Thank you for all of the kind words.


    I hadn't realized this before but it's an interesting bit of trivia: HONDO was Warner Bros. first widescreen movie!


    Warner Bros. had pretty shut down the studio in April of 1953 for a period of evaluation and testing with 3-D and widescreen. Jack Warner announced the studios all-widescreen policy on May 7, 1953. The All-Media camera rig was first shown to the trades on May 19 and HONDO began filming on location in Mexico on June 11.


    Work finally commenced on the lot on July 14 after a three month hiatus. The first feature to begin production in Burbank was THE BOUNTY HUNTER in 3-D and 1.75:1.


    If you'd like more information on the dawn of widescreen, please visit the 3-D Myths page on our website. There's a link to another page with additional widescreen data. I hope you find it interesting! http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/top-10-3-d-myths


    Thanks again for your kindness.


    Best,
    Bob Furmanek
    3-D Film Archive, LLC



  • First of all, welcome Bob to this message board. We are so happy to have you here and hope you will explore all we have here. And thanks for the information on 3D. That was also interesting. I will be sure to read more later.

    I am about to walk out, but just wanted to say, "Howdy." You bring a lot here and we look forward to learning more soon.

    Cheers :cool: Hondo Duke Lane or just Hondo



    Quote

    "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it"

    - John Wayne quote

  • Wow, so great that Bob Furmanek is here!


    Now if only they'd re-release the 3-D version of Hondo into theaters. I've sworn off 3-D for live action movies (sorry, Bob) but I'd break my vow for Hondo.

  • Thank you very much for the welcome!


    Paula: we're on the same page. I rarely go to new 3-D films. The one exception was HUGO which I thought was fabulous. Too many of the recent films are post-converted and compared to the Golden Age titles, as flat as a pancake.


    Give me the good old days!


    Bob

  • Heh, I was just coming here to post about the 3-D screening of Hondo but I am not surprised that Bob beat me to it. :)


    I did see Hugo in 3-D but having seen it also in 2-D on my TV, I think I would have liked it just as much in 2-D in the theater. (It really is a movie meant to be seen on a big screen rather than TV, much as I did enjoy the Blu-ray.) Even movies filmed in 3-D (not post-converted) don't hold that much interest for me -- they're just too dark because of the glasses and after a while, one gets so used to the 3-D that it doesn't have that "wow!" factor anymore. Also, live action films -- even the ones really filmed in 3-D -- look more like theater flats or figures pasted up against a background than genuine three dimensions. For some reason animated films don't have that "theater flats" problem. The last few 3-D movies released, I saw them in 2-D and I don't feel like I missed anything.


    Hondo I'd like to see in 3-D just because it's JOHN WAYNE IN 3-D. :)

  • If you're in LA on June 21, here's a rare opportunity to see a screening of the digital 3-D version of HONDO: http://cinema.usc.edu/events/event.cfm?id=12757


    A warm welcome Bob to the group.
    Im sure I can speak for everyone outside of the LA area that we will all be waiting to hear, from those lucky enough to attend, about the whole 3D Hondo experience.
    Is there any intention to 'tour' Hindo in 3D?
    We can only cross our fingers it comes over to the UK!

    "Pour yourself some backbone and shut up!"

  • Unfortunately, I'm in New Jersey so I won't be able to attend this showing either.


    I did see the new digital restoration in 3-D at the Academy in LA back in 2007 and have mixed feelings. It looked good but the system they were using had tinted glasses that altered a color a bit. In addition, after having seen about 40 of the 50 Golden Age features in dual-strip 35mm Polaroid, I must say the digital image was lacking the brightness and clarity that you would have with dual 35mm prints.


    However, the 3-D cinematography is superb. Gretchen Wayne was interested in 3-D for this new release but Paramount was not. I can only hope that Paramount will see fit to release a 3-D Blu-ray in the very near future.


    Best,
    Bob

  • It's well worth it if you enjoy the Duke's films and watch them repeatedly.
    The Rio Lobo transfer is fantastic, so much so that it actually added lots to the viewing pleasure. No mean feat as the film isn't one of the Duke's best. :)


    I must agree with you on Rio Lobo. I'd never seen it until a few days ago, when it showed up on local TV. Walter Brennan was great, the rest of the cast was barely believable and really miscast. Nor is Duke exactly putting his all into the performance.

  • . . . an article about Hondo by Bob Furmanek, a film historian who has conducted extensive research into the changeover of 1:37 Academy ratio to the various widescreen formats in the early 1950s, and also 3D.


    Aspect ratios are always something of interest to me. :)


    Paula,
    I have to ask, sorry if you've said before, but what is your background?
    Your posts have been fascinating and hugely informative for me, and everyone else I'm sure . . .


    Dooley, I work in a job that has nothing to do with film and in fact -- I've never even taken a film course! I am just a hardcore film buff who is interested in the technical aspects of films and have educated myself -- a little bit. Which means, I know a bit more than the average person on the street but very, very little compared to the professional film historians and filmmakers. Thanks to the internet, I can find the experts' posts and read up on whatever question I may have so if I post something myself, I am pretty sure I'm being accurate.


    Paula,
    Due to a minor injury that has me home from work for a day or two, I am getting to catch up on my reading around here, and am discovering many things, among them your "more-than-the-average-person" knowledge of some of the technical aspects of films, and am quite impressed! You most certainly add to my assertion that this site boasts a friendly, KNOWLEDGEABLE bunch of John Wayne fans!


    Thanks for adding even more to our forum!



    Dear friends,


    I just recently heard about this site and wanted to join and say hello. It looks like a great place to discuss Mr. Wayne and his incredible body of work.


    Bob,


    I would like to add my WELCOME to you (and thank Paula, who most surely must be the way you heard about our forum)!


    We look forward to hearing more from you, and getting better acquainted in the days and weeks to come!


    Chester :newyear: