Historical Events That Must Be Filmed

As one of the American people, I would say that 98% of us are ignorant of world history to the degree necessary to make an intelligent response to your question about Nelson and DeRuyter. 50% may recognize the name Nelson, maybe 10% have heard of DeRuyter (the Mrs. and I are not among that 10%, although we consider ourselves fairly well-educated).

With respect to Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz (I may have been named after him . . . who knows . . . ), he was certainly a great admiral under difficult circumstances. Having read some accounts of the Midway battle, I think that much of his success was a direct result of Divine providence, and the ability of the American people to produce enough war material in a short period of time to give him an advantage over the Japanese.

Chester

Hi Cole, Itdo, JWFan, Chester & the Mrs.

Cole, thanks for that title, I had forgotten about it. Yep it was a decent Korean War film and I liked the actors in it.Another Korean War film that is regarded highly is The Steel Helmet. I saw it years ago but did not see what was so boo coo about it other than Gene Evans was the star of the movie, and I have always liked him as well.

Itdo, Wolfgang Priess and H-C Blech are two of my favorite German actors along of course with Curt Jurgens and Oskar Werner and the one who played Corporal Kreuger in Cross of Iron--Klaus Lowitsch. When I am able to get a copy of Hunde, i'm going to have to watch both movies back to back. It's been almost 5 years since I watched Hunde.

I've never seen 08/15, can you please tell me about them? From what little I have been able to find on them in English, they do look rather interesting.

I vastly enjoyed E.A.t.G. too but, I disliked that they it is claimed that Soviet Sniper Vasily Zaitzev shot a "Maj Koenigs who was the top German sniper and sniper instructor at the sniper school in Zosssen. Firstly, no such school in a town of that name ever existed nor was there a Major Koenigs nor was there a sniper at the rank of Major even fighting on the front lines. However, I do have an original Heinrich Hoffmann PK press foto of an Oberstleutnant (Lt. Col) who is posing with a sniper rifle. This man's name is Joachim Heidschmidt. Now, he was a sniper instructor for several months but only at the rank of Hauptmann (Captain) and he indeed had been a sniper but was taken off the front lines when he was an Oberleutnant (1st Lieutenant) and was promoted to Captain and made said instructor at a sniper school (I don't yet know which one)

Anyway, sorry for my rant on the gross historical injustices that are touted as real actual history in E.A.t.G. Stalingrad and the Eastern Front are my favorite areas of study. You are totally correct though, the film is made of false legends. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed the film and will eventually have it on DVD. Ed Harris made a great Jager Officer.

I've always wanted Die Brucke. I think this is the story of a group of Hitler Youth who were tasked with halting a column of American Sherman tanks. This is another definate on my list of to get DVDs. Another is both the original and remade versions of Der Teufels General. I saw the movie poster advertising the remake when I was in Hagen and then again in Lubeck.

JWFan, i'm just not familiar with de Ruyter. I'm more into military history dating after the Napoleanic Wars (except fro our Revolutionary War) the U.S. Civil War, WW!, and especially WWII primarily Eastern Front and Western Front. I am into the Korean War some and a bit less into the Nam War. My tastes will probably change in the future and i'll probably get back into the Krimean War or The Boxer Rebellion or something just to take a break from WWII.

I cannot make an honest choice between those two on who is better than whom simply because I have never read up on either and know so little.

Like Chester said, i'm more familiar with Admiral Nelson because of Trafalgar and I am fairly sure I have heard of de Ruyter's name at sometime but, in the fog that makes up my brain, his name just is not appearing in my memory banks unfortunately.

An easier way to show you what I mean on not being familiar with someone as great as de Ruyter.

Have you ever heard of Walther-Peer Fellgiebel? In his right he is as great as de Ruyter was. By the way, this man recieved his Knights Cross as an Oberleutnant and as an Adjutant of 2nd light army artillery detachment 935 (Motorized) He recieved his KC on: Sept 7th 1943 while serving in one of the Army Groups in Russia. His detachment was one that kept on stopping the Russian hordes time after time after time. His unit was known as a "Firefighting" unit because when they put out one fire, they were needed to put out another. In this case, the "fires" were Russian tank units that had broken through the front somewhere and were in the immediate German rear areas creating havoc. It was his units job to stop such troubles. Now can you imagine having to do this over a distance of some 3,000 miles? He had to do this almost constantly for 3 years.

HI JWFan, W-P Fellgiebel was just one of probably hundreds who commanded firefighting units on the Eastern Front. The ones you do here more of are Waffen SS units used in that capacity as well.

My history interests go back to the Roman conquest times up to the Vietnam War. Years ago all I studied about were the Romans, Greeks and the barbarians. Then I switched to Napoleanic Wars, then to the Revolutionary War, Civil War, War with Mexico, The Spanish - American War, The Russo - Japanese War, The Russian Revolution, The German (rather) Austrian Constitution War, The Frano - Prussian War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Boxer Rebellion, The French and Indian War, The War of 1812, The wars between Spain and England, France and England etc. Right now I am mainly centered on the battles on the Eastern Front. Stalingrad, Leningrad, Kharkov and Kursk are my favorites to study about.

I have heard and even read a bit about some of the names you listed like: Gustav Adolphus, Cromwell, Rembrandt (because I thought it interesting a man w/ that name that I had thought that someone made a huge mistake on the spelling of his name and I long ago, had thought that he was being confused with the famed artist, but I found out that definately was not the case) and I do know some on Peter the Great and Frederick the Great.

Now if you give me a quiz on these guys at this time, i would fail because my military historical mindset is on the events of Stalingrad and Kursk.

TRK.

I've always been interested in Erich Von Manstein, who was quite active during the Eastern front.

I think Americans are more interested in making money than in learning about history. Many do get bitten by the history bug when find out about the experiences that their own ancestors lived through. From there, they may take up a greater interest. I've always enjoyed history, since I've always liked a good story and a love of the past. I also believe that since America is such a young country, the interest lies within the nation's lifetime, although I've met some people who love reading about the Napoleonic Wars. It should also be noted that Americans are fascinated with their Civil War. You'l find more Civil War buffs in the USA than any other enthusiast of military history. I'm also awed by how many Europeans want to learn more about the U.S. Civil War. I don't know why, since so many other countries have had civil wars, as well. Maybe it just stems from an interest in U.S. history in general. One more thing: How many here know anything about South American history? There's a lot of interesting stuff there, too.

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Originally posted by JWfan@Mar 16 2005, 11:08 AM

But what always fascinates me is how Lee could continue fighting against the north while he was outsupplied and outnumbered and still came up with brilliant ideas

cya Jwfan

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He certainly did, too bad Lee put his state above his country, but that was the growing process this country had to go through. It used to be referred to as "these United States", but after the war, it has been called "the" United Staes. The war truly changed everything, though there was a lot of growing up to do. There still is. As for Lee's brilliance, I'm no tactician, as my interest lies in the basics and human dynamics of the conflict. I'm also very interested in the events that led up to the war, which were brewing for decades before the actual shots were fired.

Maybe one of the reasons that the Civil War (called the War of Northern aggression by my grandmother!) fascinates so many, myself included is because of the emotional aspect that made it unique, the issues of slavery, the brother fighting brother divides, the actual fighting on your land or near your home. I live about an hour from Andersonville, that draws lots of tourist to see the former prison camp. (It also now houses the National POW musuem, which is an extraordinary experience if you ever are near by)

One thing I have always found amusing in the Horse Soldiers. JW's character is a Yankee....but his attitude and determination remind me so much of the famous southern leaders.

Hi JWFan/Cole.

JWFan, I liked some from your list like: Hannibal, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Patton, Nelson, Frederick the Great and Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel. Some I would add are:

Robert Edward Lee, Erich von Manstein, Ewald von Kleist, Kurt Student, Erich Raeder, Karl Donitz, Gotthard Heinrici (never lost a battle) Chester W. Nimitz, Frank Jack King, Stonewall Jackson, James Ewell Brown (JEB) Stuart, Pierre Gustav Toutant Beauregard, Murat, Georgy K. Zhukov, Rokkosovsky and there is another great Russian General I am picturing but I cannot think of his name at this time.

Hi JWFan, Jackson was Lee's right hand man. It would be very difficult to get better than that. Jackson helped Lee plan many of the larger campaigns.

Oh BTW, here are some Civil War battles stats I came across yesterday.

All total, there were approx 385 actions during the Civil War. These include skirmishes, small actions and major engagements and campaigns.

Of those some 385 actions, the Union Army won 179 of those.

The Confederacy won 124 of the engagements.

From the total, some 62 actions were too close to call so they are all considered a Tie.

The remaining 20 actions which were called union victories, were actions the Union Army fought against Plaines Indians. Those actions were nothing at all to do with the Confederacy as well as did not have any Confederate leadership involved. Also of these 20 engagements between the Union Army and the Indian Tribes, approx 10 were nothing but downright massacres including the killing of elderly indians, to women and children.

Also to enclude in the Union victories tally, that they were credited with the winnings of about another 40 victories simply because the Confederates withdrew. Had they not withdrawn, these actions would have also been called a Tie. That would have knocked the Union victories tally down to approx 139 wins. This is only 15 more legit victories over the Confederates. Not too bad if I do say so myself considering the North had twice the number of manpower, more food and supplies, a much bigger Navy, better supply system, and much more manufacturing capability.

These stats can be found on Http://scv.secure-sites.us/statistics/

and or on:

http://members.aol.com/veterans/warlib61.htm

That is if these links are still working since yesterday.

As for the Russians I listed, the name I could not remember yesterday was Vasiliy Chuikov. This is the man who stopped the Germans at Stalingrad when the Germans owned 90% of the city. He then stedily pushed them back while other Russian formations slowly and systematically surrounded the area around Stalingrad making it The Stalingrad Pocket. Chuikov came back from the brink of destruction to win this battle. At one point, he and his HQ staff had to abandon their bunker do to advancing Panzers and German Engineers with Flamethrowers who were assaulting his bunker.

But by all right, Zhukov, Chuikov and Rokkosovsky all deserve to be on the list of greats.

Chester Nimitz is not to be confused with the Chester Nimitz from your side of the world. That Chester too was an Admiral. Chester Nimitz (the Ami) was our best Admiral of WWII. Frank Jack King was a great tactician but was not a combat Admiral. Oh and George C. Marshal should be added to the list of greats as well.

I'll "give ya" on P.G.T.Beauregard. I listed him because he has a cool name. But seriously on him though, he was an excellent general.

Best regards--C.

Hi JWFan, too late on Nimitz. He has already been placed on a list of 100 top senior commanders of all time. I do not recall where this list was posted except that it was posted on a few sites in the Military History web ring. I never heard of Tromp or Blake. What were they famous for? and Whar war(s).

Georgy K. Zhukov was the General in command of the Siberian troops at the beginning stages of the war. When the Japanese decided that they were going to invade Russia from the area closest to them, well, they made a big mistake. They attacked Zhukov's forces and literally Zhukov wasted them. Gave them more than a bloody nose so to speak. The Japanese never again tried to fight the Russians after losing two huge battles to the Russians commanded by Zhukov. Because of these victories, this is how he really came to the attention of Joe Steel (Joseph Stalin).

Konstantin Rokkosovsky was a great Infantry General and fought most excellently against the Germans even when the Germans were beating the Russians battle after battle after battle. He quickly came to Stalins attention too.

Vasilly Chuikov, was also another great Infantry Commander and was always known to be VERY tough but as well as caring for his men. He had a great reputation before Stalingrad but with his victory there, he was one of the top 4-5 Russian commanders of the war.

One important Russian General I forgot to mention was Budenny. He was an excellent Armor warfare General.

Geo C. Marshall was THE one who ran the war for the Amis, and was the General in charge over MacArthur, and Ike. They took orders from him and he made many an important decision. This General was a "behind - the - scenes - General.

In my HO, some qualities that makes a great commander are:

1) His battlefield successes.
2) His tactical successes.
3) His leadership skills.
4) His ability to act decisively under great stresses and at the proper place and time.
5) His ability to being a bit political as well.

Some extras I will throw in are:

6) The trust that the men under his command have for him.
7) Having his men's respect.
Being practically loved by his men (though not required)
9) The "drive" to get things done.
10) Being practical with his decisions but not too cautious.

Quite welcome about the Civil War info. Before a few days ago, I never knew this info myself.

Cheers--C.

Oh and one more thing about Zhukov (not that it is important but) he IMO greatly resembles the actor Pat O'Brien.