Pinned Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? Registration is completely free and will enable the use of all site features including the ability to join in or create your own discussions.
       

    There are 296 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by lvellek.

    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Elly wrote:

      Issue 2 of "JOHN WAYNE BEFORE STAGECOACH" coming soon!
      A large document so can administrators accomodate this please? Assuming you would like it posted? :wink_smile:

      thanks Elly

      Elly good to hear from you.
      We would certainly like it posted, if we can .
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Will get it organised over the next week or so.

      KEITH I am not getting emails when a reply is posted can you help me with this please.

      thanks Elly
      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Elly wrote:



      KEITH I am not getting emails when a reply is posted can you help me with this please.

      thanks Elly


      Elly, you need to go into your User CP> Subscribed Threads and
      check your settings
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      ethanedwards wrote:

      Elly, you need to go into your User CP> Subscribed Threads and
      check your settings


      Hi Keith

      I just did and it is set to receive instant emails?

      thanks Elly
      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Issue 2 of "JOHN WAYNE BEFORE STAGECOACH"

      Includes screen captures and video clips showing JW in all those films where it is stated he was uncredited, an extra etc.

      Well it is ready HOWEVER the document without the video clips is nearly 4MB and I cannot upload it all here. I am working on getting it here complete with clips, meanwhile here is page 1-5 only. (Page 3 the timeline and pages 4 and 5 the table have been inserted as attachments.)

      FULL TEXT AND SCREEN CAPTURES CAN BE SEEN HERE

      dukefanclub.weebly.com/john-wayne-before-stagecoach.html




      JOHN WAYNE BEFORE STAGECOACH




      By



      Elly Reid, Neil Roughley and Bob Tuttle.






      John Wayne’s earliest known involvement in films is generally acknowledged to be his appearance in the 1926 film, Brown of Harvard.

      There is much speculation as to which films he was involved with in the following years, right up until the release of Stagecoach in 1939.

      It is known that John Wayne did prop work, walk-ons, stunts and extra work throughout this time, often without any on screen credit. (name visible on the actual film)

      The many written and recorded biographies of John Wayne were mostly created decades after this period when memories were not as sharp as they once were. John Wayne himself said he could not remember all of the films he was involved in. Research for these biographies is inconsistent and has led to many contradictions which are quoted ad infinitum as being “definitive”.

      We have used a variety of references in this research but we have used the films themselves as the “definitive” source. After all if John Wayne in person and his name, can be seen on screen then who can argue that he was not involved or not credited?

      We have used clips and or screen shots of the films to substantiate our findings. Many are available to view on line.5

      This is an attempt to accurately and fully document what we know at this time. We may never know all of John Wayne’s work but it is hoped that with this on-going project our knowledge will continue to grow.


      Our approach


      · To establish a timeline of possible films John Wayne could have been involved with.


      · To view the actual films and establish whether John Wayne can been seen on screen.


      · To view the actual films and establish whether John Wayne is credited on screen.


      Sources often say John Wayne was “billed” or “credited” (or not). Billing and credit is explained here for clarification.

      Billing is a performing arts term used in referring to the order and other aspects of how Credits (the list of actors and behind-the-scenes staff who contributed to the production) are presented in films and other creative works. Information given in billing usually consists of the companies, actors, directors, producers and other crew members.
      From the beginning of motion pictures in the 1900s to the early 1920s, the moguls that owned or managed big film studios did not want to bill the actors appearing in their films because they did not want to recreate the star system that was very prominent on Broadway at that time. They also feared that, once actors were billed on film, they would be more popular and would seek sky-high salaries.
      In 1910 Florence Lawrence previously only known to the general public as the "Biograph girl", was lured away from Biograph by Carl Laemmle for his new Independent motion picture company (IMP). Laemmle offered her more money and marquee billing, something Biograph did not allow at the time. She became the first film star to receive billing on the credits of her film. From then on, actors received billing on film. Also originating during that time was the system of billing above and below the title, to delineate the status of the players. Big stars such as Pickford, Fairbanks, and Chaplin were billed above the title, while lesser movie stars and supporting players were billed below the title.
      During the era of the studio system, on-screen billing was presented at the beginning of a film; only a restatement of the cast and possibly additional players appeared at the end, because the studios had actors under contract and could decide billing. The studios still followed the billing system of the silent era.
      However, after the studio system's collapse in the 1950s, actors and their agents fought for billing on a film-by-film basis expanding its size significantly. Since the late 1960s, a significant amount of the billing is reserved for the closing credits of the film, which generally includes a recap of the billing shown at the beginning. In addition, more stars began to demand top billing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billing_(film)



      The Timeline

      Is taken to 1931 as it appears that for the most part, after this time John Wayne was credited on screen.



      The Table

      Shows those films, in order of release date, which we have established John Wayne was probably involved with. Clicking on the film title will take you to the clip of film where John Wayne appears with opening and closing credits.

      Where we have stated “Not credited on screen” we mean that we have viewed the film and not found John Wayne’s name shown in the opening or closing credits. Clicking on that link will take you to the clip of film where John Wayne appears with opening and closing credits.

      Where we have stated “to be confirmed” this only means that to date we have not viewed the film. Clicking on that link will take you to the additional notes following the table.


      RED Not viewed by or held in the collections of the authors.

      Blue Clickable hyperlink (Click on these to follow the links)

      *** There are further notes for these films following the table.

      timeline.jpg Page 3 the timeline

      AA table.pdf Page 4 and 5 the table




      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Elly: ADDED LINK TO FULL TEXT ().

    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Hi Everyone

      recent correspondence with Library of Congress re above.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
      Sent: 06 April 2012 15:12
      To: [email protected]
      Subject: Library Question - Answer [Question #7594258]
      Hello Ellen
      Following are the films from your list for which we hold film elements:

      Mother Machree (Fox)1928
      - Sound version, incomplete
      - 35mm safety print; reels 1,2,5

      The Deceiver (Columbia) 1931
      - 35mm nitrate original negative picture and track
      - 35mm safety composite fine grain master positive (cfgmp)

      That's my Boy (Columbia)1932
      - 35mm nitrate negative picture and track
      - 35mm safety cfgmp

      Voice of Hollywood no 13, The (Tiffany)1932
      - 35mm nitrate composite positive
      - 35mm fine grain master positive picture and track


      Adventure's End (Universal) 1937
      - 35mm nitrate
      - 35mm cfgmp

      Best,
      Rosemary Hanes
      Reference Librarian
      Moving Image Section
      Library of Congress
      101 Independence Ave., SE
      Washington, D.C. 20540
      telephone: 202-707-8572
      email: <
      http://www.loc.gov/rr/askalib/ask-mopic2.html >


      Hello Rosemary

      As only a part of the moving image holdings is searchable online can I ask if you are able to advise me if you have a copy of the following films in your moving images collection please.


      Mother Machree (Fox)1928
      Strong Boy (Fox) 1929
      Speakeasy (Fox) 1929
      Three girls lost (Fox) 1931
      Words and music Fox 1929
      The Forward pass (First national) 1929
      The Deceiver (Columbia) 1931
      That's my Boy (Columbia)1932
      Voice of Hollywood no 13, The (Tiffany)1932
      Running Hollywood (Universal)1932
      The Hollywood Handicap (Universal) 1932 Adventure's End (Universal) 1937
      Sweetheart of Sigma Chi (Monogram) 1933
      Oregon Trail, the (Republic) 1936

      Thank you so much
      Ellen
       
       
      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Again, your doing a great job Elly, getting in there and rooting this info out.
      The amount of time you've spent on this is amazing. I can only spend the time on this subject, that it takes to type out this post, but my heart is
      there with you !

      Chester :newyear:
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Here is an updated list of those films considered to be missing and or rare. I have noted where a print is held in a film archive. This information has been provided by the film archives however, I have not posted any correspondence in order to keep the list as clear as possible. Should you wish to see this correspondence I will happily provide it.


      Adventure's End (Universal) 1937 LOC

      Annie Laurie (MGM) 1927 LOC, BFI (Copies are in circulation although poor quality)

      Cheer up and Smile (Fox) 1930 UCLA

      Deceiver, the (Columbia) 1931 LOC

      Forward pass, the (First national) 1929 UCLA have soundtrack only

      Girls demand excitement (Fox) 1931 UCLA

      Hollywood Handicap, the (Universal) 1932

      Mother Machree (Fox) 1928 8 reels in total, LOC have reels 1, 2 & 5. UCLA have reels 2, 5 & 7. (The incomplete restored version has been released to DVD)

      Oregon Trail, the (Republic) 1936

      Running Hollywood (Universal) 1932 UCLA

      Speakeasy (Fox) 1929

      Strong Boy (Fox) 1929 Possible print in Australia See www.silentera.com

      Sweetheart of Sigma Chi (Monogram) 1933

      That's my Boy (Columbia) 1932 LOC

      Three girls lost (Fox) 1931 UCLA have an incomplete copy

      Voice of Hollywood no 13, The (Tiffany) 1932 LOC

      Words and music Fox 1929 This is considered lost. http://vitaphone.blogspot.com





      BFI (British film institute), LOC (Library of congress), UCLA (University College Los Angeles)
      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      This isn't good news. This is GREAT news! Some of John Wayne's films that have long been thought lost, are no longer lost. The next obvious question is, what are the procedures for getting copies of these films? Any ideas?
      "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them" It may be time worn, but it's the best life-creed I know.
    • Re: Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

      Hi

      I should have added that I am in touch with another 9 film archives who have yet to reply to me. So we may yet see more films that are not lost just in archives somewhere.

      As for how to get them released onto DVD I guess we need to lobby the copyright holders and studios.
      Be who you are & say what you feel Because those who mind dont matter & those who matter dont mind
    • Re: Olive Films

      Hey all! As I see Paula has already informed all about Olive Films releasing The Oregon Trail and this is true! Through my research at the Library Of Congress they have a copy also but Olive has obtained a copy and they are very well known (as a few have already mentioned) for their beautiful restoration versions. I own all the current Duke titles from Olive and they are fantastic quality! This is great news that they will be doing the restoration work that I informed all earlier that I was told could be done at a large cost. I'm glad that Paula has updated you with this great news and now I'm back to the dungeon researching for the other lost films of John Wayne. Talk to you soon.
      P.S. I have been in contact with a collector in Denmark who says he has a print of Words And Music (1929) and am working on confirming this. Will keep you informed.