Duke's Missing And Rare Movies

Well the reply was swift short and to the point!!! I have copied it here.

I still think it is worth others emailing this guy with the same request.


From: Lubliner, Roni (NBCUniversal) [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 17 June 2013 18:09
To: Elly
Subject: RE: Adventure's end 1937 starring John Wayne

HI Elly,

If it hasn’t been up until now, it never will.

Thanks.

He hasn't answered me yet. Looks like were racing down a dead end street!

I haven't been back in awhile simply because after my last post some comments were made about someone I know that were upsetting and uncalled for. So I will make this comment and am not sure if I will be back.

Apparently many of you don't understand about the list of films that are considered missing or lost. I have a good friend that works in the movie section of the Library of Congress and chatted with him yesterday. He's been there quiet a while and is actually getting ready to retire. We went into some detail about the lost films of John Wayne and he gave me some insight about what is and is not a viable copy of a film.

Let's take Adventure's End from 1937. Back in 1975 Universal Pictures gave their composite master positive to AFI - American Film Institute for verification (their records indicate the master is in fair condition) and transfer to the Library of Congress. After AFI viewed the film they turned it over to the LOC. Since then (38 years ago) it has been in the hands of the Library of Congress and will remain so in perpetuity. Actually a composite master positive is not even a type of media that can be viewed except by using it to make a digital copy and then viewing the copy. My friend said their records show it has been at the Library since 1975 and will remain there unless requested by the copyright holder. It's not something that can be made available to the public or to anyone just walking in the door wanting to see the film.

The LOC would have to make a digital copy (reference copy) of the composite master and then make it available to the person requesting it but to request it is almost impossible. You have to be a licensed researcher and have a letter from your organization stating that you need to view the film for something that will eventually be made available to the public like a book or a documentary. The film can only be viewed and take notes but the film can not be copied and they won't allow recording equipment in the room you'd use to view the film. A college student could also have the same access if the head of the university verified that it is imperative to the student that they see the film for their education and again be making something that will eventually be made available to the public just like the researcher.

He also told me in the 25+ years he's been at the LOC maybe a handful of films were requested because there are so many hoops to jump through. The only other way is for Universal to request the film back and make a dupe from the master for reproduction and he's never seen that done. Typically the masters are not in very good shape.

We've both talked to the studios on the phone and get the same answer every time. The masters are in poor shape and the bottom line won't allow it. The last one I talked to was Columbia about That's My Boy and The Deceiver. It's not in the cards because the money is not there. They couldn't sell enough copies to make up for the cost of reproduction and mass marketing. There are just not as many fans around as there were 30 years ago after John Wayne died.

Lenny

Thanks for the info Ivellek. You sound like you know what your talking about. I guess our only hope is that guy in Canada. ( assuming he's for real ) the one with the 16mm print. Maybe someday he'll wake up and decide to share his good fortune! Maybe someday we'll get a filty rich member who joins our group and wants to help us out! We all know, money talks! B....... walks!

Hey all. Sorry I haven't updated in a while but I've been on that never ending trek to get things done. I received the update that Lenny above posted and I believe we know the same guy. He is very informative and has been helping me a great deal at LOC on my many travels there. Most of what Lenny says is true except that I have been told by a few people there that the LOC copy is actually in good shape. I have also tried many times to view the film but as Lenny stated, it has to be for a documentary film project, college paper, etc. I am starting to also talk to people about doing a documentary on John Wayne's "lost" films to get in with that angle. We'll see how that goes! I have been around and around with NBC Universal about the copyright which at first they denied having or renewing. Roni Lubliner is a real tool to deal with (the one that first told me they didn't have the copyright and didn't even have that title listed in their history!) but I have been tireless trying to get this worked out in some way. NBC Universal doesn't want to waste any money on an old film that they can't make big $ on, hence the stance of shunning any inquiries. In my talks at LOC I said that even a copy that was in fair/poor shape would bring many sold copies just for the sheer value/history of the film to the many John Wayne fans. I am still working on getting this film released in some way and will not stop until it is done. I've been working too many years to get it done to stop now and have been in contact with a few people that have gotten other films in this manner released. I am also about to travel overseas to visit a couple of leads that have told me about copies of this film existing with a couple of collectors. We know how that sometimes goes but I have done this many times before and it just has to be done to get the right answer. One is in Denmark and I've spoken to this one personally so we'll see. I PROMISE to keep you up to date on my travels and attempts to get this done as it is not only something I want to see but know that all those Duke fans want to see it also. Keep up the great work here and I'll be talking to you soon. Just enjoy the great reissues from Olive Films until we get this done!

I wish you luck in your treck to get this done. It's a crime that a film can be allowed to go to waste because there is no mega money to be made on it. I know it would sell well, as there is a large magnitude of fans who would pony up the dough to buy a John Wayne film they haven't seen. Please keep us updated as you go. Many thanks for your efforts.

Mark

Quote from The Duke Is The Man

I received the update that Lenny above posted and I believe we know the same guy. He is very informative and has been helping me a great deal at LOC on my many travels there. Most of what Lenny says is true except that I have been told by a few people there that the LOC copy is actually in good shape. I have also tried many times to view the film but as Lenny stated, it has to be for a documentary film project, college paper, etc. I am starting to also talk to people about doing a documentary on John Wayne's "lost" films to get in with that angle.

I doubt we talked to the same individual since I know this guy in real life and have known him for many years. He doesn't answer the phone or even talk to outsiders about things like this. I met him when I worked in DC years ago and we used to go sailing together. But anyway, he actually went down and looked at the film the last time we talked and he said it would be hard to get a decent copy made from the master because of it's condition. And they will NOT make you a copy to take out of the LOC, the copy they make is only for viewing and taking notes at the LOC. You can't bring in any recording equipment and to say you're making a documentary they have to have documentation to that effect, copyright releases, commitment papers from a production company for the documentary. He said they've had people try to scam them before and they always get denied access.

Quote from wtrayah

Thanks for the info Ivellek. You sound like you know what your talking about. I guess our only hope is that guy in Canada. ( assuming he's for real ) the one with the 16mm print.

Second, the guy in Canada is a hoax. This has been verified by the studios that were also looking for something like what they found for The Alamo. That project is dead also. The film has been mishandled and there is no money or approval for the project. As I've said before I work in the licensing, copyright, marketing and trademark department for a film related company. Companies like Columbia, Universal, MGM & Fox take the time to do BR releases they are proud of. Paramount was able to purchase the Republic films cheap so they took the cheap route with Olive so they could make some money. A perfect example is the recent release by Columbia of the film The Bridge On The River Kwai on BR. It came with a 35 page booklet, 12 reproduced lobby cards all in a 1" hardcover case. Compared to the Olive releases where they wouldn't even spend money on licensing a decent image for the covers, so they used old film posters which are not copyrighted to get off cheap and they even look cheap in my opinion.

Quote from ethanedwards

Lenny,
I am sorry that you seem offended in some way,
and only hope this doesn't you away from our board,
which we consider to be one of the friendliest on the net.
I feel sure a PM to the member/s involved could have sorted this.

In the meantime, thanks you theis update

Display More

Last, I wasn't so much offended as I was angered by your hypocritical comments here and in the other section I posted in. You seem to be upset at someone who has to deal with an intense set of rules but has successfully done so for 6 years now. I met the individual a few times, once when he was invited out to Newport Beach and given the grand tour. I hear Bert even gave him and his wife a private tour of the Wild Goose. I met him at the JWCF dinner in 2011. They all seem to like him and his on-the-spot knowledge is amazing. This might be a decent forum if you want to talk about all the old westerns but they won't allow him to let that forum go that way. I won't go on anymore, I like the guy and I like the other forum. I've never heard Ethan or any of them say a harsh word about him. If he was the demon you make him out to be he wouldn't be starting his 7th year over there.

When I met him we became friends and I ended up joining that forum and have made lots of friends over there. I post over here and the first thing I get are negative comments about him. I guess that's it for now.

Good luck in your efforts TDITM great to see someone out there trying to get the film released and I hope you're successful. Can anyone clue me in on what Lenny's been offended by, I don't really understand from his post.

Interesting discussion here, and very informative.

Lenny, hope you don't let past disagreements with others (that don't directly involve you) color your view of a whole community or individuals here. I hope to see you around here more often.

As they say, there is always two sides to a stories and there was pettiness on both sides to some degree or another. I don't hold hard feels, and have moved on, and I hope everyone here and elsewhere do the same.

This is not the place to dig this back up, as this is going WAY off topic. So I'll end this here.

Life is short. Not everyone will see everything on the same level, but we can coexist in a respectful manner for the benefit of both communities.

Cheers.

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Forum Runner

This is why I do not post so much on this board anymore. Far too much "Off topic" JUNK to read through before you get to anything interesting or to the point.

MODERATORS Can't you filter out or at least move this so that the thread reamins about what it says it is and nothing else? PLEASE!

Awhile back someone said that the marx bros. fan club was able to get the movie they wanted. If that was true, ( Soup to nuts ) then where
there's a will, there's a way. I doubt that there are more of those fans then there are J.W. fans! Maybe we should talk to someone from their
fan base and see how they did it? Maybe they were a little lucky. Maybe they had reasonable people to work with!

Quote from Elly;130412

This is why I do not post so much on this board anymore. Far too much "Off topic" JUNK to read through before you get to anything interesting or to the point.

MODERATORS Can't you filter out or at least move this so that the thread reamins about what it says it is and nothing else? PLEASE!

Elly, you just contributed to the clutter, or as you say "JUNK" with this post.

As moderators we can always do a better job corralling the discussions better. But members play a roll in this also. We do moderate a good bit and move posted to other threads to help keep the discussions flowing much of this is not seen.

We'll do our best to double down and tighten down the threads so that we stay on topic more. I agree it does make for a better experience when there isn't allot of excessive chit chat that is unrelated to the thread.

Now back on topic.

Thanks for the input,

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Forum Runner

I would like to submit yet another previously unknown film featuring a young John Wayne. A still recently surfaced courtesy of (my nemesis) Richard Roberts, from the 1927 Educational/Mermaid Films production of "Seeing Stars." Standing in the back of the group is a tall lanky familiar looking kid - none other than John Wayne. I will try to post a blow up of the still here, but I have never been to good at it, so no guarantees. Here goes!
Seeing Stars 02..jpg

Wow, I have just read through this entire thread. I have to wonder why anyone (person or organization) would want to hold back any copies of any of John Wayne film for any reason. I simply cannot understand why every effort wouldn't be made to get it out to the public. Reading earlier threads about money, surely there would be support to get this done for those films that may be able to be restored. I forget the name right off the bat, but I have recently seen millions raised by fans to make a movie. Maybe that same thing can be done for a John Wayne film.

Hi Bob

Thanks for this I will have to try to get a copy and get a free more stills to post here.

[quote='lvellek','http://dukewayne.com/bb/index.php?thread/&postID=130389#post130389']

I doubt we talked to the same individual since I know this guy in real life and have known him for many years. He doesn't answer the phone or even talk to outsiders about things like this. I met him when I worked in DC years ago and we used to go sailing together. But anyway, he actually went down and looked at the film the last time we talked and he said it would be hard to get a decent copy made from the master because of it's condition. And they will NOT make you a copy to take out of the LOC, the copy they make is only for viewing and taking notes at the LOC. You can't bring in any recording equipment and to say you're making a documentary they have to have documentation to that effect, copyright releases, commitment papers from a production company for the documentary. He said they've had people try to scam them before and they always get denied access.

There is a chance that it isn't the same guy that I always speak to when I'm at the LOC. Since you have known him for many years and in real life (what I live in also!) maybe it is a different person. I have lived in the DC area for over 50 years (my whole life) and have used the LOC for at least half of it and know the people/rules there very well. If you read my post throughly it says that I have spoken to a few people about doing a documentary on John Wayne's lost films and using that angle to finally see the film. That is not a SCAM and I was not implying a scam to see the film. I know the LOC rules and policies very well and have been working with them to try and get this film out so not only myself but all the fans get to see it. I've been at this for a few years now and scamming is not one of the ways that I use to get things done.