Stagecoach (1939)

I guess I'll be the first to post a review of "Stagecoach". First of all, Alex Cord and Ann-Margaret are just great!!!

Scratch that.

The first thing I noticed was Wayne's relaxed underplaying. He's more graceful and naturalistic, particularly when you compare it to some of his later bombastic performances. He conveys quiet confidence about his ability to avenge his brother's murder. He doesn't doubt his chances to take down the three Plummer brothers with just three shells and even sends Buck to warn them -"Ringo said he'll be passing here in six or seven minutes".
Ringo's innate gallantry compels him to treat Dallas as a lady and he doesn't understand why the others do not. The exchange at the dinner table is top notch. When he says "Well, I guess you can't break out of prison and into society in the same week", I don't think he's being just clueless about Dallas' past.
Thomas Mitchell as Doc has the flashiest role and he plays it perfectly. When he stands up to Plummer in the saloon you know that he has regained his dignity and stature permanently. Besides, he has most of the funny lines.
I thought that Louise Platt was the only dud in the cast. She just seemed too arch, and maybe that's what Ford wanted, but she seems like she belongs in a different movie. Andy Devine reminded me of a young Andy Griffith with that shock of hair over his forehead. Claire Trevor somehow seemed to gradually soften up as Ringo's treatment of her took hold. A remarkable performance.
The coach chase and stuntwork are still first rate.
The one portion of the film that I don't get is why it focuses so long on the Plummers in the saloon. Granted, something had to be shown while Ringo walked Dallas to the bad part of town, but it could have been tightened. (Look at me giving directions to John Ford.)

But this was Duke's film. He is charismatic, assured, deadly and kind. No wonder this one made him a star.

We deal in lead, friend.

Nice review, Bill. I am still trying to come up with something different, but seems as if this has been approached just about every way it can be. Still, will look for SOMETHING. I HAVE AN IDEA....yep, just might work well, LOL.
KEITH

Good luck. How about the Muppet version -with Kermit as Ringo, Miss Piggy as Dallas, Fozzie as Buck, Animal as Curly, Beaker as Peabody, Sam the Eagle as Gatewood and Janice as Lucy?

It would have to be better than the Kristofferson, Cash and Nelson version.

We deal in lead, friend.

LOL MB, VERY easy to see you have grandchildren about.......how else would you know all the Muppet names?

Sorry, just posted that MARK made the first post on GW. Easy to get you two mixed up....Besides Peter and Carl, yall are the only ones who talk to me on here, LOL......Oh, sorry Russ...you also, my musical genious friend.

When you see the post I made for your 1000 one, look to the left under my picture! You won't get a hint from our main man on here...don't believe.

Funny, the Muppets.......no, that is not my new twist. You will see, YK

So far I did not have enough time to watch Stagecoach (I watched it a few months ago), but I got my aunt out of the German hospital today. - Some Germans thought, they could keep an Austrian citizen in their country against his will, but this is not the way it works!

My aunt is now in a hospital in her hometown Vienna in Austria and she is happy. I am preparing to move our two horses and all our stuff back home to Austria next week. And then I will give my aunt a big hug and relax and maybe will find the time to watch Stagecoach together with her!

OK, hang on, this is NOT what you are going to expect, LOL. Ask first, don't shoot, please! Made this as a spreadsheet but couldn't get it to post that way....only as an attachment, so follow the colors, (pain in the....oops, excuse me)!

Situation Andy Devine's Buck (high, cracky voice) Ward Bond's Buck (deep, gruff, in charge voice)

Buck drives coach into the first town and is asked if he has the payroll for the mine Yes, it' right here, (and he touches the box with his foot) Well, ya think I dropped it off at the saloon? You got eyes....can't ya see it right here?

Buck talks about loan Jim, I'll pay you that two bits I owe you when I come through. Jim, don't forget that money you owe me.....oughta charge ya interest!

Buck ready to get down from coach Now you kids stay away from the wheel. Kids, you're liable to get your foot chopped off if ya don't stay away from this coach.

Talking about the weather Well we run into a little snow up there, not bad, but you fellahs better prepare for a good frost. Little white stuff up there, better get your heavy long johns out

Buck gets down from CoachKind of slides down from place to place Puts his foot on the side, grabs the handle and swings down

Buck talks to passengersPassengers out for Tonto, You better get out and stretch your legs, I mean your limbs Maam Ya came for Tonto, come on out. All else can stretch your legs. Yes, I said LEGS...that's what they are ain't they?

Buck opens door to coach Yes Maam you can get a cup of coffee across the street in the Hotel Hands on hips: I imagine you saw the Hotel across the street when we drove in didn't ya, Lady?

Buck comments on lady's countenance Maam, you look a little peeked. Heh Lady, what's up, ya look like you swallowed a frog.

Buck enters sheriff's office Hello Mink, hidey Fing. Well Marshall, I'm looking for my shotgun guard. (Saunters in dusting his hat off on his leg and nodding at men). Boys! Who the Gol Durn is riding shotgun?

Buck hears posse is out looking for The Ringo Kid who escaped jail Ringo, busted out, well good for him! Knew bars couldn't hold the Kid. Still need my shotgun man.

Sheriff says he reckons Ringo will be looking for Luke Plummer He better stay away from Lordsburg, I heard Luke's run all of his friends out of there. Well, gimme my guard, I need to give the boy a hand in Lordsburg. Get the lead out.

Sheriff decides to ride shotgun when he finds Luke is in Lordsburg When will I learn to keep my big mouth shut. I don't give a rat's ass who rides aside me as long as we get the Hell outa Dodge

Passengers load Lady folks ride forward, please.. If you ladies don't want to wind up on the floor, I suggest you sit facing forward!

When Buck hears Geronimo is on the loose (Starts to get off driver's seat) "Geronimo! Well then I ain't going! Pulls out whip and rifle and says, Sheriff and I will take care of HIM!

Buck stops at bank as banker is waving him down asking if there is room Sure is Mr, Gatewood. Going to Lordsburg? Well, of COURSE there is. Get in, we're not holding up for nobody!

Driving the coach through country If there's anything I don't like, it's driving a stagecoach through Apache country.Just waiting to get a crack at that Geronimo and his gang while we still have the Soldier boys.

Still driving Just took me this job to make enough money to marry my Mexican gifl Julietta and been working hard at it ever since Took this job to get me a stake for a nice little cattle ranch...won't be long now. Me and Ringo going in as partners!

Still driving and sheriff asks if he married her Sure, my Julietta's got the biggest family you ever did see. Bet I'm feeding half of Mexico. Ain't no woman gonna hogtie me, no Siree. Don't mind funning with them though.

Buck keeps shaking the reins very unnaturally for driving a team Will explain that later.

The Ringo Kid standing in the road Heh look, it's Ringo. Ringo, 'bout time we ran into you, get aboard.....Aw, stop flapping your lip, Sheriff.

Got to first stop Take it easy with Old Bessie now. Careful with those horses, they ain't cows you know.

Ringo says he thinks they can get through OK without the soldiers Listen here Kid, I'm driving this outfit, and if the soldiers go back, so am I. You bet your boots Kid, we got it made.

When horses need to be changed out Sheriff says, "Help me change the team, Buck" "Give me a hand with the team switch, Sheriff"

Voting on going on or back If the soldiers go back, so am I. Ain't THAT far to Lordsburg....they'll never have a chance with me, Ringo and the sheriff.

Buck announcing stage leaving, sheriff interrupts All aboard for Apache Wells, , (sheriff butts in), and Lordsburg. Those going to Apache Wells, , Don't interrupt me sheriff, and Lordsburg better get yourselves aboard....we're leaving with or without ya.

Going out the door to stage (Makes a sandwhich and eating it going out) Strolls to the bar and takes a long pull from the whiskey bottle

Buck takes a different trail to where it will be cold I'm using my head. Those breechclout Apaches don't like snow You idiot, want those Apaches down on us.......they don't like the High Country....you just watch me, ya hear?

Baby is born and brought out It's a BABY! Kinda scrawny little thing, ain't it?

All looking at baby It's a little girl. Why didn't somebody tell me. Girl, Huh? Was wondering when she was gonna pop.

Doc singing while others try to discuss Geronimo and plans Quiet Doc, this is a serious matter, ain't it? Doc, there's a time for singin' and a time for planning....this is the planning time.

Spotted Apache war smoke signals, all board Coach and leave Curly, why don't you take those cuffs off the Kid, he's mighty handy with a gun. Curly, Ringo's the best shot here, get those cuffs off him!

Get to Ferry and find it is burned Curly, look at the Ferry, its burned too. Damned redskins couldn't just burn the buildings, had to burn the Gol Darned Ferry too!

Crossed river with logs tied to coach and horses swimming Curly, do you think I should charge the baby half fare? Tell ya one thing, we find that woman's husband, he's gonna pay full fare for his new kid!


Buck notifies Luke that Ringo is on his way (Nodding and getting out in a hurry), Ringo says he'll be passing this way in 6 or 7 minutes. (Throws open the saloon doors with a shotgun in the crook of his arm), Ringo will be here to see to you three quicker than you can say flibbertigibbets!

NOW FOR THE ZINGER!

Now, this may upset some folks, but, after all, this is supposed to be our opinion and discussion of this can certainly follow. My take on this film is that the main story is about the passengers in the Coach, and Buck, the driver. I thought all the passengers played their parts admirably with maybe a little less emphasis on Lucy Mallory played by Louise Platt, who seemed to be more "just there"...probably not her fault, it is just that her part was not "fleshed out" as well as the others. Also, I wasn't particularly pleased with Benton Churchill who played Gatewood. Although I dearly love Duke, and at 30 years old getting his first really big break, I thought he did a fine job. But, to me, Ringo was more of a ride along character than the others...a bit like Curly, the sheriff. To tell the honest truth, I feel that Claire Trevor as Dallas, and Thomas Mitchell as Doc actually stole the whole show. They both had probably more time than Duke did. I didn't try to time it, it just seemed so. And, their roles seemed to be more important as a whole. Dallas portrayed courage, embarassment, caring and yes, dignity. While Doc was just pure delight at whatever he did. They both were in the last scene and Doc had the last word. As to my little synopsis of how it would have been if Ward had played Buck instead of Andy. I feel that Pappy never had planned for Ward to play that role, (be still my tongue), and he just used the 6-up as an excuse to Duke and Ward. Andy Devine gave the character Buck, the comedic relief that was needed in the film. Remember, Pappy always like to combine poetry with comedy. And there aren't too many out there who can play that kind of role except for Gabby Hayes, two peas in a pod only one is shy and timid, and the other is raucous and rowdy. So my dear Ward, please forgive me, but you were never meant for that role as my little synopsis above proves to me. I have seen this movie many times. Something always bothered me about it. While watching it AS a Group Watch, I now know what it was, and I have explained it to you all. Duke was not the real star to me. I am in my bunker and ready for attack from any direction. Keith

Lot of color changes there......probably screwed up somewhere. Careful, I am armed! LH Don't beLIEVE I am doing this, but had to do SOMETHING with this choice, LOL!

Hilarious post Ladyhawk, I can even hear Ward saying those lines. Must have taken you ages to go through doing that!

As to what you have written about Duke's breaking role... It's an open forum, that's the point, to have opinions which are you're own. I think you'll be surprised.

Bet I'm going to get my attempt at a review in just under the wire.
Actually struggling to fit it in as I've seen it so many times and got a ton of other films I want to watch, lol!

The whole purpose of the film, not only in my opinion, but several film historians, WAS to showcase the group dynamic.

Yes, it was JW's breakout role, but it was mainly a small sampling of a particular society, what made them tick, how they responded to things, and the inevitable results of their actions or inactions.

As for Dallas and Doc...yes, they did a good job stealing the show, as did Andy Devine. Orson Welles watched this movie over and over again to prepare for making Citizen Kane. He said it Taught how the perfect movie was made.

"Don't mind funning with them, though"? My stars and garters, you have quite a salty way with words.

Interesting concept, my Keith. Now, let's see your version of Ward playing Beekeeper in "The Alamo", Crow in "The Comancheros" and Mattie Ross in "True Grit". C'mon, I dare ya.

Kidding aside, you have a very valid point about Ringo as just part of the mosaic, with the focus on Dallas and Doc. But it's the decency of Ringo that redeems Dallas and the resulting decency of Doc and Curly to provide both of them with a future. If Ringo is subtracted from the group there would be no catalyst for either. You could lose Gatewood, Peabody or Hatfield, but not Ringo.

Fantastic insight and post. Don't hunker in the bunker.

We deal in lead, friend.

Just watched STAGECOACH! Great choice, one my all-time favorite movies!

On one hand you had the quintessential Western; the vengeful gunslinger, the “saloon girl” with a heart of gold, the mysterious gambler, the cavalry vs. Indians, and the midnight shootout. And on the deeper level the drama of the forced union of characters from both sides of the tracks. One group looks down on the other, but the supposed “dregs”, especially Dallas and the drunken Doctor Boone prove they have more class than the snobs!

Of course the two “proud glorified dregs”, Doc and Dallas steal the show. They are the strongest characters. But, the other two outcasts are my personal favorites!

Ringo, who’s more quiet and underplayed than the later John Wayne characters, is a great character just by being, well, quiet and underplayed! Sure Gary Cooper could have played the character very well, as could Joel McCrea or Randolph Scott. But at that time, John Wayne just said more with a look than most leading men could with dialog, proving John Ford was right and Duke was the only one for the role!

(And for the record, I didn’t buy any naiveté that might have been implied. He’s been around! I mean this guy is a gunslinger, he’s been in and out of prison, he knew well that Dallas was a “saloon girl”. So why did she worry about hiding that fact from him? He knows and he doesn’t care!)

And we can’t forget the other outcast, the gambler, Hatfield. I liked this guy! He may actually be my favorite character of the story, because, in the end, we still don’t know much about this guy! We know he’s an ex-rebel soldier, and that Mrs. Mallory’s father was his commanding officer, and he owes him a debt…but that’s it! And we’re almost certain that Hatfield is not his real name!

Then there’s the chase across the desert…it’s one of the best action scenes from ANY movie!

The final 10 minutes…Ringo Vs. the Plummer Brothers is more classic than some entire movies! Luke Plummer has relatively short screen time, but, thanks to great dialog, we know and hate this guy the minute we see him!

IT’s easy to see that this movie inspired many filmmakers down the line, including Sergio Leone, who’s character “Harmonica” in “Once Upon a Time in the West” reminds me somewhat of Ringo.

And it even inspired me! When I produced a play a few years ago called “Shooting Sundown”, when it came to staging the gunfight scenes, I wanted to do it in a way that didn’t look corny. So, taking a cue from John Ford, as in this movie, the audience saw the start of the gunfight, but then the lights came down and we used sound effects and switched to the point of view of another character down the street who, along with the audience heard the gunshots, and then the lights would come up and you’d see the aftermath of the shootout.

Great movie. One of the best! The only thing, I watched it after reading your post, Ladyhawk, now I miss Ward in that role!

Well, MB, You have to realize, I am writing a book told through the eyes of Ward Bond, Terry Wilson, and Frankie McGrath.......have to start learning to talk the way they did. Dobe's book, Company of Heroes, which Peter got for me, is fascinating, and is helping quite a bit in that department....amazing the way Duke talked....Ward, I can imagine, but DUKE? I have never laughed so much in one book and am just halfway through. Vic McLaglen often answered to Pappy's direction, "Yes Jack, Dahlin'! And Frankie McGrath, while playing cards one night said, "Heh One Eye, stop peeking at my damned hand", and kicked him in the shin!....on account of GIN! Well, you rhymed so I figured I would also.

Still haven't seen the Alamo since I was a kid and Fess was Davy, never have seen the Comancheros yet, and Ward would have no business playing Mattie, LOL! Only did that trying to get some life into this GW. Thought some might find it funny. Took forever to do. Put it on a spreadsheet all nice, and then I couldn't get it to transfer, so had to do the color thing....missed one too, I noticed.

Oh, I never intimated that Ringo was not a necessary part, in fact I said I thought Duke played his part well, (I think I said something of the kind).
I enjoyed Peabody and Hatfield....they were part of the group interaction. Gatewood is the only one I thought was a bit superfluous.

Thanks for your comment MB. Took me over two weeks to try to think of something that hadn't already been said about this. I never read the comments or what is here about a GW. I just watch it about 3 times and try to discover how I feel about it, not how others have described it. Sometimes I come up with the same as is written, other times, I come up with something different.

This time, I learned something that changed the opinion I had. I knew that Pappy had said he wanted Ward for the part of Buck, but that he couldn't drive a six-up well enough. I was always disappointed because of that, and I imagine Duke and Ward were back then, also. But when I did my little comparison, and I went through the film bit by bit, copying Andy's dialogue and adding the way Ward would have had to play it, (overdid it a bit on purpose), I suddenly realized that Ward was NOT the proper person to play Buck. I could only think of Andy or Gabby Hayes although I am sure there are many more.....those are the ones that came to mind immediately. I also realized that each time it ended, I was thinking more about Dallas and Doc than anyone.

So, there is my honest, gut reaction to STAGECOACH. Mine, not something I read. Hope to see some interesting others. Very hard to do with a movie like this though.....it has been pulled apart and put back together so many thousands of times by so many different people.

I do wish Ward and Duke could have done movies together in Duke's later years........I think they would have made quite a team.....and after Wagon Train.....an EQUAL TEAM!

Stars and garters, never heard that, MB...will have to put it down to use in my book.......also haven't heard the term "salty" used for that meaning in a while....that will go in their also. Thanks!

As for not hunkering in the bunker...it is early yet, and I have plenty of supplies...think I will hang out here a little longer to be on the safe side!
YK

Quote from Gorch

"Don't mind funning with them, though"? My stars and garters, you have quite a salty way with words.

Interesting concept, my Keith. Now, let's see your version of Ward playing Beekeeper in "The Alamo", Crow in "The Comancheros" and Mattie Ross in "True Grit". C'mon, I dare ya.

Kidding aside, you have a very valid point about Ringo as just part of the mosaic, with the focus on Dallas and Doc. But it's the decency of Ringo that redeems Dallas and the resulting decency of Doc and Curly to provide both of them with a future. If Ringo is subtracted from the group there would be no catalyst for either. You could lose Gatewood, Peabody or Hatfield, but not Ringo.

Fantastic insight and post. Don't hunker in the bunker.

We deal in lead, friend.

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Quite enjoyed your take ZS. I am peeking out of my bunker now.
I liked Hatfield also as I mentioned in my answer to Bill's post. Sorry if I ruined it for you. But, I do think the comedy was needed, and although Ward COULD be funny, Ward Was not funny....there is a difference. Ward had to act to be funny.....Andy just naturally was, LOL!

Once again, nice post! LH

Quote from ZS_Maverick

Just watched STAGECOACH! Great choice, one my all-time favorite movies!

On one hand you had the quintessential Western; the vengeful gunslinger, the “saloon girl” with a heart of gold, the mysterious gambler, the cavalry vs. Indians, and the midnight shootout. And on the deeper level the drama of the forced union of characters from both sides of the tracks. One group looks down on the other, but the supposed “dregs”, especially Dallas and the drunken Doctor Boone prove they have more class than the snobs!

Of course the two “proud glorified dregs”, Doc and Dallas steal the show. They are the strongest characters. But, the other two outcasts are my personal favorites!

Ringo, who’s more quiet and underplayed than the later John Wayne characters, is a great character just by being, well, quiet and underplayed! Sure Gary Cooper could have played the character very well, as could Joel McCrea or Randolph Scott. But at that time, John Wayne just said more with a look than most leading men could with dialog, proving John Ford was right and Duke was the only one for the role!

(And for the record, I didn’t buy any naiveté that might have been implied. He’s been around! I mean this guy is a gunslinger, he’s been in and out of prison, he knew well that Dallas was a “saloon girl”. So why did she worry about hiding that fact from him? He knows and he doesn’t care!)

And we can’t forget the other outcast, the gambler, Hatfield. I liked this guy! He may actually be my favorite character of the story, because, in the end, we still don’t know much about this guy! We know he’s an ex-rebel soldier, and that Mrs. Mallory’s father was his commanding officer, and he owes him a debt…but that’s it! And we’re almost certain that Hatfield is not his real name!

Then there’s the chase across the desert…it’s one of the best action scenes from ANY movie!

The final 10 minutes…Ringo Vs. the Plummer Brothers is more classic than some entire movies! Luke Plummer has relatively short screen time, but, thanks to great dialog, we know and hate this guy the minute we see him!

IT’s easy to see that this movie inspired many filmmakers down the line, including Sergio Leone, who’s character “Harmonica” in “Once Upon a Time in the West” reminds me somewhat of Ringo.

And it even inspired me! When I produced a play a few years ago called “Shooting Sundown”, when it came to staging the gunfight scenes, I wanted to do it in a way that didn’t look corny. So, taking a cue from John Ford, as in this movie, the audience saw the start of the gunfight, but then the lights came down and we used sound effects and switched to the point of view of another character down the street who, along with the audience heard the gunshots, and then the lights would come up and you’d see the aftermath of the shootout.

Great movie. One of the best! The only thing, I watched it after reading your post, Ladyhawk, now I miss Ward in that role!

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Quote

Sorry if I ruined it for you.

Nah! Andy Divine was great as Buck. I did enjoy your Ward style dialog though.

Another thing I like about this movie is that IT CAN’T BE REMADE! This is the definitive version. They tried it in the 60’s; that version was fair, Bing Crosby as the Doc was good, but it’s far from a classic. And of course the TV movie in the 80’s was just a novelty…just something for Country Music fans like myself to collect. That version wasn’t much at all!

Thanks ZS, glad you did. Some of the phrases came from various movies, not all said by Ward, LOL. Some came from his Wagon Train type dialogue and the rest from what I have heard about him, Duke and Pappy when they got together on their outings, LOL!

Quote from ZS_Maverick

Nah! Andy Divine was great as Buck. I did enjoy your Ward style dialog though.

Another thing I like about this movie is that IT CAN’T BE REMADE! This is the definitive version. They tried it in the 60’s; that version was fair, Bing Crosby as the Doc was good, but it’s far from a classic. And of course the TV movie in the 80’s was just a novelty…just something for Country Music fans like myself to collect. That version wasn’t much at all!

Maverick, that's an excellent review. I look forward to your future posts.

We deal in lead,friend.

Just deleted a giant post in here, iv'e been busy with uni latlely i'll get my thoughts on stagecoach up in the next few days

Well I watched this yesterday and what can I say, what a movie and it looked fantastic in blu ray! The first 10 minutes or so when all the characters are introduced and get on the coach is great as it shows us the movie is going to be about opposites people trying to get along in this situation their introduced into too.

My first impression of Thomas Mitchell as the drunk doctor was that he might be quite grating as the film went on, but how wrong I was! The introduction of Duke was fantastic, the way the camera panned up and the music etc seemed like this was Ford's way of saying too Hollywood here's a star, it made you sit up and take notice of Duke, had I never seen him before the way he as the ringo kid is presented in this movie would make me an instant fan and on the lookout for any future work.

However, the movie isn;t just about Duke the supporting cast in this film is up there with any other iv'e seen. Mitchell is fantastic as the loveable drunk yet competent doctor and fully deserved his oscar. I especially enjoyed the way the men acted towards him with disdain while on the Coach and the admiration after he had delivered the baby. There was just so much going on between the characters in this movie, the doctors living life for the moment attitude, Mallorys desire to be with her husband before her baby is born and the obligation Carradine feels too keep her safe as he knew and admired her father. Not too mention the prostitute who Duke falls for and the ever humurous Andy Devine paired with the gruff Marshal.

I very much enjoyed the story about the apache's and the attempts those on the coach had too make to get away from them, the chase scene was wonderfully orchestrated by I can only assume Yakima Cannut and the tension building until the apache's finally attacked was really well done. Duke's character too was an interesting one, torn between revenge for his family and love for this new women, in the end he got both but it's highly enjoyable too go on that journey with Duke.

Mainly I feel the film was about the characters and the inter-relations between them, with perhaps underlying messages about class and not judging book's by their cover. It's hard too argue with Orson Welles assertion that Stagecoach is the perfect textbook of film making, and it will be a cherished classic in my house for many years too come.

Very perceptive, Irish. Enjoyed reading your opinions and hope you continue to contribute.

We deal in lead, friend.

Ah, so you DID post Irish! Well..........
Looks like you pretty much agreed with the rest, LOL!
So, Peter Dooley is supposed to choose the next one, right? Glad you came aboard before we finished this time....good for you. Gave us all a day to comment. KEITH

Iv'e had essays too write recently about 1500 words that have taken me the best part of a week and that 500 word review I threw up took 15 minutes, I suppose it shows you should do what you love. Yep it's dooleys turn this month, apologies for leaving it so late, now that unis over for awhile I should be abit more active around here