The Sons of Katie Elder (1965)

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    There are 146 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by lasbugas.

    • The Sons of Katie Elder (1965)

      SONS OF KATIE ELDER, THE (director: Henry Hathaway; screenwriters: William H. Wright/Allan Weiss/Harry Essex/based on a story by Talbot Jennings; cinematographer: Lucien Ballard; editor: Warren Low; music: Elmer Bernstein; cast: John Wayne (John Elder), Dean Martin (Tom Elder), Martha Hyer (Mary Gordon), Michael Anderson Jr. (Bud Elder), Earl Holliman (Matt Elder), George Kennedy (Curley), Dennis Hopper (Dave Hastings), Jeremy Slate (Deputy Ben Latta), James Gregory (Morgan Hastings), Paul Fix ( Sheriff Billy Wilson), Rhys Williams (Charlie Striker), Sheldon Allman (Judge Harry Evers); Runtime: 122; MPAA Rating: NR; producer: Hal B. Wallis; Paramount; 1965)

      Review:

      This movie is about four brothers, Wayne plays the oldest, a gunslinger. Dean Martin is a gambler wanted for murder. Earl Holliman is an unsuccessful businessman and Michael Anderson Jr. plays the youngest brother attending college. The foursome get together for their mother's funeral and through much bickering agree to herd some cattle she purchased just prior to her death.

      The best thing this movie has to offer is the cast. John Wayne has the greatest screen presence ever. Sure it probably helped that he was physically big, but his charm was that he always played a mans man, with tough talk and guns a blazing. He is the epitome of what a movie star is. Not the greatest actor, but he has the greatest screen persona.

      Review: Eric (Three Movie Buffs)
      Kevin - Moderator/Administrator
      jwayne.com
      ___________________________________
      Official JWMB online store

      The post was edited 3 times, last by chester7777: Remove dead link ().

    • I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,

      In 1965, I'd signed a contract for 'The Sons of Katie Elder' with John Wayne, but a week before shooting I went to a Hollywood party that the vice squad busted because of marijuana. I was handcuffed and photos of me got in the papers with headlines like 'Ex-Disney Child Star Arrested for Pot!' So Wayne and the producers fired me."


      I assume he was going to play Bud. I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

      As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

      I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder. Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

      It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway. It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.
    • Hi all,
      It is a mistake in the first quote from some movie review: they were herding horses, not cattle.
      I like this movie at the first for the Duke - one of his great performances, and it is seen in the movie but hard to belive that he was so sick (after the operation he didn't spend much time to recover). I read that it was very difficault to him to climb at the horse back (becouse of operation) and that the famous shooting scene in the river almost killed him.
      I like the plot. I was much surprised when I saw this movie for the first time. The world how it is shown in it is very unfair. And Jhon Elder, who very much wanted to live in the right way after his mothers death, simply can't do it.
      And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.
      Regards,
      Senta
    • Originally posted by Senta - Jan 10 2006, 09:10 PM
      And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.


      Right you are, my dear!

      [I]This
      mother's heart is fond of The Sons of Katie Elder, and I absolutely adore the music from it!

      [/I]
      As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.


      Regarding the age difference between John and Bud - I realize that in real life, the actors were 36 years apart, but for the story line, they could have been 20-25 years apart. My oldest child and youngest child are 18 years apart. Is there any script reference that would indicate the age difference between the characters? It's been quite awhile since we've seen the movie, so I don't remember.

      Maybe we'll have to watch it again :lol: !

      Mrs. C :angel1:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by chester7777: general 'clean up' ().

    • Being both huge fans of the duke, and dino this movie has taken a special place in my heart as a real....family movie. This is my moms favorite (and, the only one she will unforcibly watch with me), so i've seen it plenty of times. its great to see such brotherhood come together after such illdevotion.

      -IHW
    • Hi,
      Further to Kevins excellent review,
      please find below, some more information,
      in what I also regard as one Duke's finer movies.
      His part was highly creditable, and considering his
      physical condition at the time, he acted well.
      Rating 8/10
      _________________________________________________________________________________
      THE SONS OF KATIE ELDER

      DIRECTED HENRY HATHAWAY
      MUSIC BY ELMER BERNSTEIN
      PRODUCED BY HAL B. WALLIS
      PARAMOUNT PICTURES


      [IMG:http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u401/billohara7/the%20alamo/151380_151380Nash3_zps1082dcbf.jpg]Photo with the courtesy of lasbugas
      Information from IMDb

      Plot Summary
      The Elder boys return to Clearwater, Texas for their Mother's funeral.
      John the eldest is a well known gunfighter and trouble follows him wherever he goes.
      The boys try to get back their ranch from the towns gunsmith who won it from their father
      in a card game with which he was shortly murdered there after
      but not before getting through the troubles that come with the Elders name.
      Summary written by Christopher D. Ryan

      Full Cast
      John Wayne .... John Elder
      Dean Martin .... Tom Elder
      Martha Hyer .... Mary Gordon
      Michael Anderson Jr. .... Bud Elder
      Earl Holliman .... Matt Elder
      Jeremy Slate .... Deputy Ben Latta
      James Gregory .... Morgan Hastings
      Paul Fix .... Sheriff Billy Wilson
      George Kennedy .... Curley
      Dennis Hopper .... Dave Hastings
      Sheldon Allman .... Judge Harry Evers
      John Litel .... Minister
      John Doucette .... Henry Hyselman (undertaker)
      James Westerfield .... Venner (banker)
      Rhys Williams .... Charlie Striker
      John Qualen .... Charlie Biller
      Rodolfo Acosta .... Bondie Adams
      Strother Martin .... Jeb Ross
      Percy Helton .... Peevey (storekeeper)
      Karl Swenson .... Doc Isdell (bartender)
      Glen Anderson
      Paul Whitson
      Jerry Gatlin .... Amboy (uncredited)
      Harvey Grant .... Jeb (uncredited)
      Loren Janes .... Ned Reese (uncredited)
      Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... Burr Sandeman (uncredited)
      Chuck Roberson .... Townsman (uncredited)
      Ralph Volkie .... Bit part (uncredited)
      Jack Williams .... Andy Sharp (uncredited)
      Henry Wills .... Gus Dolly (uncredited)
      Joe Yrigoyen .... Buck Mason (uncredited)

      Stunts
      Bill Babcock .... stunts (uncredited)
      Jerry Gatlin .... stunts (uncredited)
      Chuck Hayward .... stunts (uncredited)
      Loren Janes .... stunts (uncredited)
      Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... stunts (uncredited)
      Chuck Roberson .... stunts (uncredited)
      Jack Williams .... stunts (uncredited)
      Henry Wills .... stunts (uncredited)
      Joe Yrigoyen .... stunts (uncredited)

      Other crew
      Johnny Cash .... singer (uncredited)
      'Chema' Hernandez .... head wrangler: Mexico (uncredited)

      Writing Credits
      Talbot Jennings (story)
      William H. Wright (screenplay) and
      Allan Weiss (screenplay) and
      Harry Essex (screenplay)

      Produced
      Paul Nathan .... associate producer
      Hal B. Wallis .... producer
      Joseph H. Hazen .... executive producer (uncredited)

      Original Music
      Elmer Bernstein

      Cinematography
      Lucien Ballard (director of photography)

      Trivia
      This picture marked the return of John Wayne to work after having a cancerous lung removed just four months earlier. He insisted on doing all his own stunts to show the public that the illness hadn't slowed him down.

      Michael Anderson Jr. replaced Tommy Kirk at very short notice.

      Despite this being a big-budget movie with a large cast, Karl Swenson was utilized to play two parts. He played "Doc Isdell" and also the bartender in the scene where the Dean Martin character auctioned his eye. The bartender part actually had more lines of dialogue.

      John Wayne, aged 57, was 36 years older than Michael Anderson Jr., who played his younger brother Bud.

      Filming was due to begin in September 1964, but had to be delayed until January 1965 after John Wayne was diagnosed with lung cancer.

      According to her tombstone, Katie Elder was 64 when she died. Her eldest son is played by 57-year-old John Wayne.

      When John Wayne is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne, who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.

      In western history, there is a famous Katie Elder: "Big Nose" Kate Elder, a prostitute and girlfriend of legendary gunfighter John "Doc" Holliday.

      The hearse featured at the funeral of Katie Elder currently resides in front of the Haunted Mansion at Walt Disney World.

      John Wayne allegedly had Tommy Kirk fired after learning the young actor was gay.

      The story was originally set to be filmed in 1956, starring Alan Ladd and directed by John Sturges.

      Tommy Kirk is quoted as saying he was fired from this production for a drug bust. He was at a party that was raided for marijuana and a picture of Tommy in handcuffs made the paper. Even Tommy never said his release had anything to do with his being gay.

      This film premiered on ABC television the same night as the infamous "Heidi" incident on NBC.

      Remade in a modern setting as Four Brothers (2005).

      Goofs
      * Continuity: John Elder fires 14 shots from a six-shooter without reloading.

      * Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the gun battle between the Elder Brothers and Hasting's henchman at the bridge, there aren't enough sounds to match the puffs of smoke from the guns.

      * Continuity: When Tom and Bud are shackled together, the shackles are placed on Tom's left leg and Bud's right leg, as seen when they try to walk away. In subsequent shots, the shackles are on Bud's left leg and Tom's right.

      * Continuity: When the Elder boys are in town and decide to go to look at their old ranch, Tom has a scruffy beard. When they ride to the ranch and have a run in with the deputy, Tom is now clean shaven. They all ride back into town. When they reach town, Tom has his scruffy beard again.

      * Revealing mistakes: During the gunfight between John Elder and Morgan Hastings in the gun shop at the end of the movie John looks up from behind the counter and Morgan fires a round at him. You see a glow on the counter where the bullet strikes the counter before the bullet gets there. This is where the small charge is that simulates the bullet strike.

      * Continuity: John Elder arrives in town for the first time and goes directly to the sheriff's office. As he reaches for the front door to enter his jacket is hung up behind the handle of his holstered pistol, but when he comes through the door his jacket is draped over the gun.

      * Revealing mistakes: If you slow motion the sequence where John Elder (Wayne) draws his pistol on the sheriff in the graveyard, you can see that there are two guns, one in his holster, and another in his hand, done (not very well) in an effort to make him look fast on the draw.

      * Factual errors: When Bud says he is going with John and that they'll be famous like the Daltons, John replies that the Daltons were dead having been hung. Three of the Dalton brothers, Gratton "Grat" Dalton, Robert Rennick "Bob" Dalton, and Emmett "Em" Dalton all participated in a famous attempted two bank robbery in Coffeeville, KS on Oct. 5, 1892. Grat and Bob, along with two gang members, were gunned down and killed by town's people. Emmett, although shot some 22 times, survived. He went to prison until 1907. He died in Hollywood, CA July 13, 1937. An older brother, Frank, a US Deputy Marshal, was killed in the line of duty on Nov. 27, 1887. The Dalton's criminal career lasted just over four years. The photo taken of the four killed in Coffeeville is one of the most famous photos showing the eventual end of those who flout the law.

      * Revealing mistakes: The man who John Wayne hits in the face with a stick is obviously not George Kennedy.

      * Crew or equipment visible: When Ben Latta leaps forward to catch the revolver thrown by John Elder, the cable that snatches him backwards (after being shot by Morgan Hastings), can just be seen trailing behind him.

      * Continuity: When he is seen watching the funeral, the position of John Elder's hands change between the long shot (hanging by his side) and the close shot (his left on his hip, his right on his gun). A rock visible behind him in the long shot disappears as well.

      * Continuity: When the Elders get on the Bridge, you can clearly see that the water has a strong current. Yet when Tom and Bud jump in to get more guns the water is like a mirror.

      * Continuity: SPOILER: When Curley is shot there is no wound visible. A few scenes later he can be seen in the bottom right corner of the screen on the ground with a bullet wound above his eye.

      Memorable Quotes

      Filming Locations
      Casa Blanca, Durango, Mexico
      Chupaderos, Durango, Mexico
      Churubusco Studios, Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico
      (studio)
      Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, Durango, Colorado, USA
      Durango, Mexico
      El Saltito, Durango, Mexico
      Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England

      The post was edited 8 times, last by ethanedwards ().

    • Memorable Quotes

      Bud Elder: I'm going with you. I can draw pretty fast. We can be famous -- like the Dalton Brothers!
      John Elder: They're famous -- but they're just a little bit dead. They were hung!

      INFORMATION IMDb
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England
    • Originally posted by ethanedwards@Jan 20 2006, 02:35 PM
      MUSIC BY ELMER BERSTEIN
      [snapback]25554[/snapback]

      The music from this movie is exceptional and, for me at least, quite memorable.

      Another piece of trivia - Martha Hyer, who played the part of Mary Gordon, has another link to John Wayne in that she has writing credits for the movie Rooster Cogburn.

      This film is available from Deep Discount; Amazon also carries it, in various formats.

      Chester :newyear:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by chester7777: update links ().

    • I loved the Sons of Katie Elder. I thought that this one was fantastic. Well acted, if a bit over the top (especially the scenes with Bud) but awesome nonetheless. A really great story.
      [SIZE=3]That'll Be The Day[/SIZE]
    • Originally posted by may2@Jan 10 2006, 09:19 PM
      I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,
      I assume he was going to play Bud.  I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

      As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

      I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder.  Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

      It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway.  It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.
      [snapback]25199[/snapback]


      It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....ie, my Dad's family was 13 brothes and sisters with 4 half brothers and a half sister for a grand total of 18 kids :wacko: , the first being born in 1928 and the last being born in 1954. Birth control was not well practiced then or before.

      Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.
    • Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 07:52 AM
      It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....
      [snapback]35768[/snapback]


      . . . and in not so rural America, there are still some families - ours, for example - that have more than the typical 2.5 children. We have six, and the age distance from the oldest to the youngest is 18 years (our oldest is 26 years old and the youngest is 8). In today's society, six kids is probably equivalent to the 18 of your dad's generation. You should see the looks on people's faces when we say we have six kids. :fear2:

      Today, the age range is not necessarily unusual, but that is because of so many second marriages, and second sets of kids. In our case, however, all six are ours.

      Chester :newyear:
    • Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 03:52 PM
      Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.
      [snapback]35768[/snapback]



      This is from my initial post:-
      Jan 20 2006, 11:35 PM

      * The real Katie Elder was the wife of Doc Holliday, one of the gunfighters at the OK Corral

      Hi,

      Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
      reminded, me to link, sun526,
      to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
      follow the links below,

      Kate_at_40.jpg

      Duke Stories- Page 48

      Katie Elder

      Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate

      Mary Katherine Haroney
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England
    • Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 18 2006, 10:55 AM
      This is from my initial post:-

      Hi,

      Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
      reminded, me to link, sun526,
      to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
      follow the links below,

      [ATTACH]910]

      [b]Duke Stories-[/attach]
      [ATTACH] Page 48

      Katie Elder

      Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate

      Mary Katherine Haroney
      [snapback]36101[/snapback]

      [/b][/attach]
      [ATTACH] Sorry bout that. I missed you already posted that info. Sometimes in long post's I miss some info and sometimes my little ol' attention span wanders :uhuh: .
      [/attach]
    • Hi sun526,

      I know what you mean, as these days,
      there is so much information available!!
      I include as much info, as I can,
      so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

      Bills, work on Katie Elder,
      is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

      Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
      and your interesting replies,
      Best Wishes
      Keith
      London- England