Hatari (1962)

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  • The reason that tranquilizer darts were not used at the time this movie was made was that in the early 1960's they were not available as of yet. They are a fairly modern invention. They are not also entirely safe. The daarts themselves can cause permenant if not fatal harm. Also, the drugs used can also cause serious injury and or death. Also if an animal is only grazed by the dart then there is the chance that it could escape a capture team and die or be injured in the drugged and drunken state. Many animals do not tolerate tranquilzers well at all.


    Here is an idea.. trans that are considered safe for horses.. ace.. can cause male horses to have serious life threatening injuries to their privates.. to remain out, rather than retracted, it is a about a 1 in 10,000 injury but it happens, also that particular trank known as ace, has been known probably 1 out of 10 times to make horses go the opposite way, making them really hopped up. Another trank used in horses called Rompun, often makes horses what is known as jkicky, they will kick anything they sense move behind them.. see where I am going with this, these are drugs that have been used on hundreds of thousands if not millions of equines and they can have serious side effects or problems, think about using darts on animals that they have not been extensively tested or used on, in the wilds.. which is why darting is a problem. Even now, most of the time, problem wildlife are trapped or killed rather than darted... or at least in the US.


    I love the movie and I am an animal conservationist, but I also realize when the movie was made and accept it for what it is. Also in all honesty for many people other than the old wild kingdom you dont see the african plains looking like that anymore, it is a step back time. game is not nearly as plentiful now..
    nicole

  • Quote

    Originally posted by Ravenslight@Sep 14 2006, 09:57 PM
    Also in all honesty for many people other than the old wild kingdom you dont see the african plains looking like that anymore, it is a step back time. game is not nearly as plentiful now..
    nicole

    [snapback]34475[/snapback]



    hi Nicole,
    But why? I visited the site devoted to the place were Hatari was filmed and it looks exactly the same. Have you ever been in Africa?
    Regards,
    Senta :rolleyes:

  • No I havent, but I have read significantly. Yes the land itself looks the same, but the wildlife that is there, there are very few free ranging elephants not on preserves, same for rhino's , wilderbeest, etc.. some aniamls like the addax have diminished to where they were thought to be extinct in the last ten years until a national geographic explorer spotted a couple, litterally just 2 were spotted..


    The Tanzania/Kenya area or what is called the Eastern Arc is one of the top 25 hotspots for loss of endemic species, mammal, reptile and plant. It is also considered to be what is know a hyperhot spt.. meaning that it is at the highest risk for loss of species.. true conservation efforts did not start until the mid 1990's. So much of the land was stripped for farming and big game hunting that there has been a huge loss..


    Big game hunters still hunt for trophies.. local taxidermist say that in the last 10 years...the big cats are being taken younger and younger so that many of the trophy cats are only 3-4 times bigger than the average house cat, because they are not reaching maturity.


    There are 307 species in Tanzania on the threatened or endangered species list, many mammals and even more in the fauna . What I am getting at is this, there is little protection, what has come is coming way late in the game.


    Steve Irwin was very much into conservationism, which most people did not realize.. they only saw him as the zany animal person, but in reality his true life long passion was conservation around the world.. which he put his money and his dedication behind.. there are really very few actors or personalities that I respect.


    I have great respect for John Wayne, Steve Irwin, Angelina Jolie, Patrick Swayze ( he is very much an average person- a friend of mine who passed away last year trained arabian horses and comes from a long line of arabian horse trainers, of the international caliber... spoke highly of patrick saying he was an average person.. did not think of himself as better.. and was very very dedicated to family-which is a rare quality in today's stars) and I also respect Patrick Wayne as well.. but that is pretty much my long list of stars that I have great respect for as both stars and as humans.. Anyway, there is some really , really good information on the tanzania situation if you visit Critical Ecosystem Patnership Fund. There are a whole lot of other places on the web to research it, but this one has extensive scientific research, there is way too much sensationism out there and this site is not about that, it is about true scientific research
    Nicole

  • Hi Nicole,
    Thank you for your information, sad enough. It is interesting how our descussion of the movie turns out to the animal welfare and problems. But it is great thing which I love in Duke movies that they opened some new sides of the world for me.
    Regards,
    Senta :rolleyes:

  • Actually, i think that those are the very reasons that so many people do not care for this movie in mainstream america, can not speak for elsewhere. I have spoken or shared the movie with many people because I so dearly love it and what I generally here is that the scenery is beuatiful but that they have issues with the way the animals are handled etc.. and I also attempt to remind them of these very important facts


    You can not watch a movie made circa 1960 and expect it to meet the same standards of today. It would be the same as watching a movie about say slavery and saying that it is an awful movie because slavery is norm in the movie.. It does not make the movie bad, it simply projects an idea of what was the norm for the period the movie represents
    I dearly love the Duke and his movies. I share my movies all the time, but I also make an attempt to educate when I share movies. I generally enclose a little note if I know the person is an ardent feminist and I am loaning McClintock, to remind them that up until the 1960's women were handled significantly differently than since that time. The spanking scene and the way that John "manhandles " O'hara is often frowned on. Well, i remind people that the movie is about a different era, made before feminism was the norm.


    Actually as an interesting side note. Hardy Kruger gave up his acting career when he bought the "Momela Game Preserve" and ran it for aproximately 13 years when the political arena got too dangerous he had to abandon it and return to germany and to his acting career. It lay in near ruins until about 5 years ago or so when a german couple bought the farm and restored it to it glorious heydey and now it runs the place as a bed and breakfast and also offers screenings of hatari in the rooms where many of the films scenes were filmed. They restored it with period furniture and decorations, to include no tv's visible etc


    I think it is amazing that the place caused such a deep stir within Kruger that he literally walked away from his life to live there and farm and do very well until the government became so unstable
    It is obvious that the region has been inspiring heartfelt awe for sometime


    Hatari is one of those movies that when the world seems overwhelming, when the world seems too cruel or complicated or even just too lacking in taste and class.. it is one of those movies that reminds of us a time when ladies were ladies and gentlemen were just that, all man, but with that side that showed a man knew how to treat a lady.. where courtsey was the norm, where I dont know, it just is a refreshing, happy movie that can wash the dirt and scum of modern day away for a couple of hours
    Nicole

  • In the "Elephant Walk" scene where John Wayne scares off that elephant who
    is menacing Elsa Martinelli by firing his rifle in the air at it, such is not what originally occurred in that scene it is my understanding. In an interview
    for a shooting and hunting magazine Wayne related that as originally filmed he
    actually killed that elephant, shooting it with the .458 Winchester Magnum rifle he is seen carrying in that scene. Director Howard Hawks wanted to make thisscene real Wayne remarked and had some of the locals stir up a small herd of elephants until they managed to get one to actually charge at him. Knowing itwas to be real the .458 Magnum rifle was loaded with live ammunition but also precautions had been taken to insure Wayne's safety in case of mishap (there was a jeep beside him with engine running and a driver, which Wayne was to jump into as it sped off to safety with him in it just in case his shot failed to stop that elephant). On cue Wayne was to shoot the elephant and stop or kill it with shots from that rifle; which he did much to his relief and that of the jeep driver. Afterwards though, fearing possible charges of wantonly killing an animal the producers reputedly had the scene edited, reshot, and changed to what it is now seen as. But according to that article and interview John Wayne did actually shoot and kill an elephant in the original filming of that scene, and not frighten or chase it off as we see him do in it now.


    If memory serves me correctly, the article in which I read the account of
    Wayne killing that elephant during the filming of "Hatari!" was from an earl-
    ier interview with him that was reprinted in Guns Magazine during the summer of 1980. If you can find issues of this magazine from that period you will find that article in it along with a photo of John Wayne and the .458 Winchest-
    er Magnum rifle he used to kill that elephant during the filming of that scene.


    :agent:

    Regards
    Robbie

  • Hi Robbie,

    According to Hawks Hollywood's Grey Fox Wayne did shoot an elephant in Hatari I'm not sure if it was during the making of the picture in a scene or after during recreation. if I remember right it was a source of embarrassment later.


    Regards

    Arthur

    Walk Tall - Talk Low

  • Hi Arthur


    Thanks for that response. To be honest I was hoping the story would have been false, I'm disappointed Duke took it upon himself to shoot and elephant whether as part of a movie or for fun (if you can call it that). This is one of the few times I have ever criticised Duke but I don't think he should have shot that elephant, I didn't think such actions were even legal.


    :agent:

    Regards
    Robbie

  • I doubt he did it for sport. What's illegal is killing them for the ivory tusks. If it was a do or die situation they may not have had a choice. From what I've read they spook easy. If your in to animal rights, I'd think there would have been more problems when they filmed Circus World and all those caged animals.

  • Robbie,


    You have to keep in mind that when Hatari was filmed, people's mindset towards hunting big game in Africa was a lot different than it is today. The animal rights organizations really didn't get started until the end of the 70s. I'm sure there were some groups of smaller size, but they never really affected public opinion. Prior to that time, it was quite the rage to go to Africa as a big game hunter and shoot lions and tigers and . . . whatever jumped up in front of you.


    Personally, I wouldn't find that very interesting, as I would only be interested in hunting for something I planned on eating, but like I say, that was a different time, and things change. At that time, very few big game animals were actually being shot. It has only been in the last twenty to thirty years that poachers armed with machine guns have been killing off these animals in order to sell different body parts to the highest bidder. Now that, I think, is a truly a criminal act.


    Chester :newyear:

  • I can't believe I just found this, but they are advertising big game hunting in Africa again. The Big 6 is what they are calling it... "Information on hunting lion, elephant, buffalo, rhino, leopard and hippo in Southern Africa." And Wayne's 458 Mag would have been sufficient. They only require a minimum of a 375 mag but they prefer you use a 458. So there may be some truth to the story, I hate to say. But like you said, different time, different mindset. They allow it now due to over-population in most areas.

  • I think I remember reading or seeing mention of this incident in Hatari.

    The elephant was shot as described by John Wayne and then used in the
    poaching scene in the movie by which time with the heat the elephant corpse was pretty
    ripe.

    As you say different time and era.

  • interesting to hear that Mr Kruger bought and ran the film location property for 13 years.
    I liked the light nature of this film.

    Greetings from North of the 49th

  • I watched this again and really enjoyed it ( except I wish I did not know John Wayne killed n elephant) but it was the time and another film I love African Queen killed of a few animals when John Huston when big game hunting when he was not filming. I guess you just have to accept it was a different time.



    Because I had not seen it for a while and I went over to IMDB to check out some things.


    Something in the trivia really annoyed me


    Quote

    There was enormous criticism for making a film in Africa under the apartheid regime. However, John Wayne was a staunch supporter of the apartheid system and segregation, so he ignored the critics.


    Now I politically would not have agreed with John Wayne about many things but gee talk about giving a guy a bad rap 30 years after he's dead and can't say anything back. And talk about ignorance. The whole of Africa was not an apartheid state. South Africa was. The film was made in Tanzania which at that time was just out of British rule and in a relatively peaceful transfer was an independent state with Tanzanian government. Tanzania is actually a fair way from South Africa.


    I am not sure if John Wayne ever said anything about African politics so I can't honestly say I have any idea what he thought about it all but it really annoys me when I see people painting horns on someone because their views were different and getting away with leaving it there for all to believe. That is making it up. Telling fibs. And not being called on it.


    I do have to make one supposition though. If that really was John Wayne doing most of those stunts, and it sure looked like it the way he kept turning his head to the camera so you could see it was him, he was putting an awful lot of faith (like his life in their hands) in the African guys on the truck with him and helping moving the animals around. In quite a few scenes you can see them hanging on tight to actors (including John Wayne) when things looked rough. I never get the impression that the Duke was someone who would be blissfully unaware they were protecting him or ungrateful.


    dee

  • This is one of my Duke favorites. When I first purchased a DVD player it was one of the first DVD's I got of his.
    The only movie comic book I have is Hatari.
    Enjoyable start to finish.

  • i thought this was an ok film - it was a film all the family could watch although i couldn t help noticing the number of cigaretttes jw was smoking. it had a lot of humour in it and i loved the scenes with the baby elephants. it looked as though they were all being well looked after as well. the only bit of the film i didn t like was the ending - i don t know what i was expecting but i thought it was a bit feeble - all in all though 7/10 for me:thumbs_up:

    "Sorry don t get it done, Dude" (Rio Bravo)


    Hooked on The Duke