Duke's Movie Horses

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  • This is an interesting post made earlier in this thread.
    Of course as the discussion, amendments were made,
    so it's good to go through this thread again.

    Best Wishes
    Keith
    London- England

  • Welcome, Hawkswill, We have several horse experts on our board, hopefully one will spot your post and has the answer. In the meantime take a look around, and, enjoy!!


    Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1:


    While I am by no means a horse expert, I have some reason to be an amateur expert on Richard Boone, and by extension, a semi-expert on Hal Needham. Therefore, I do know that John Wayne rode Needham's stunt horse, Hondo, in at least one of his films.


    At the moment I haven't access to the resources which can tell me which film or films those were. I'm thinking that Kirk Douglas was in one of them, but I could be mistaken. I'll have to get back to you on this topic when I can get to my Kindle. The book with the info is Hal Needhan's autobiography, Stuntman. It's a great read all on its own, BTW, not to mention all the interesting stories Hal Needham has to tell about Richard Boone, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, all the films Needham worked on and all the stars he doubled. It's a great read, believe me. I've read it 4 times since I bought it and laughed aloud every time.


    I'll have to get back to y'all on this one.

    We're burning moonlight.

  • Duke rode a few horses in The Searchers. Was about to post something about Duke's horses in The Searchers after viewing it and Peter's commentary on it over a hundred times, when I saw something that I had missed all those times. Scar was sitting on the horse Duke rode in a good bit of the movie. Boy, that scrambled my theory a bit. I do believe though that the horse Duke was riding when Marty tried to stop him from going after Debbie, was one that was a Movie horse stable, "light spooker" whenever someone threw up his arms or caused a disturbance in front of him. Duke was able to stay on him and look good although he had to physically rein the horse with both hands and shift his weight to keep him from turning into and possible really hurting Marty. On the other horse he rode so much, the one with the wide blaze with the spot on it and two front white stockings and the right back leg, you never saw the reins tighten, and he used one hand to hold them. He was very comfortable on this horse as is easy to see. He used body language and neck reining with that horse. Going into Scar's lodge, he was moving too fast so had to pull him around to the left....loose reins, weight shift and neck rein. Once he was straight to the lodge, Duke lifted his legs until almost perpendicular and then gave the horse a real NUDGE and they both went straight into the lodge. This is the same horse that Duke rode in the shot running through the village at lightning speed. Now, If I could just find out what the horse's name was. Anyone know? Thanks and glad to be here, KP

    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE

  • Honeybee,


    Yes, I do understand exactly what you are speaking of.


    I had never really thought about it, but was looking up some info on who did John Wayne's stunts tonight (JW did many of his own stunts) and found some information on the subject!!!


    I had seen your remarks last week, I think, so when I saw this, it seems to verify what you saw in True Grit.


    True_Grit_(1969_film)


    "Veteran John Wayne stunt-double Tom Gosnell does the stunt in the meadow, where "Bo" goes down, on his longtime horse Twinkle Toes.[13] In the last scene, Mattie gives Rooster her father's gun. She comments that he has gotten a tall horse, as she expected he would. He notes that his new horse can jump a four-rail fence. Then she admonishes him, "You're too old and fat to be jumping horses." Rooster responds with a smile, saying, "Well, come see a fat old man sometime", and jumps his new horse over a four-rail fence.


    Although many of Wayne's stunts over the years were done by Hayward and Chuck Roberson, Wayne is on Twinkle Toes going over the fence.[13] This stunt had been left to the last shot as Wayne wanted to do it himself, and following his lung surgery in 1965, neither Hathaway nor Wayne was sure he could make the jump over the fence. Darby's stunts were done by Polly Burson.[14]


    The horse shown during the final scene of True Grit (before he jumps the fence on Twinkle Toes) was Dollor, a two-year-old (in 1969) chestnut Quarter Horse gelding. Dollor ('Ol Dollor) was Wayne's favorite horse for 10 years. Wayne fell in love with the horse, which would carry him through several more Westerns, including his final movie, The Shootist. Wayne had Dollor written into the script of The Shootist because of his love for the horse; it was a condition for him working on the project. Wayne would not let anyone else ride the horse, the lone exception being Robert Wagner, who rode the horse in a segment of the Hart to Hart television show, after Wayne's death.[15]"


    The quote above is from the site noted, and as you suggested Dollor is one of the horses, and a stunt horse called Twinkle Toes, is said to be another. I had never heard this before and so thought to be of interest. :)


  • Jessie, Honeybee, and others,


    John Wayne – Hollywood’s Greatest Cowboy – WARHorses


    Here's a link to a site where I found some other info tonight while trying to find an article I read many years ago, about Cochise, the horse that JW rode in El Dorado.


    I noticed that someone had already posted some info on Zip Cochise (I had never heard him called anything, but Cochise.) and the man who actually owned him.


    I read many years ago that the producer and director, Howard Hawks owned, Cochise and wanted JW to ride his horse in the movie.


    I don't remember the full story, but I do remember something about how it took great strength for JW to back the horse up in the scene where he meets Bart Jason and returns his money.


    I see that Quirt has also posted something about this same scene. "The horse Cochise from El Dorado was owned by Howard Hawks. Duke said that it took a lot of arm muscle to back him out of Ed Asner's ranch."


    I agree with those who say that Cochise was way too small of a horse for JW.


    I had often wondered how Cochise's owner convinced JW to ride his horse. I didn't know that the owner was also the director and producer of the movie. - You learn something new every day, or at least you should.


    One last note. In El Dorado, Josephine (Joey) also rides an appy.


    Here's the part of the article (Telling of JW's horses) that I found to be interesting!!!




    "In the 1930s Wayne was paired with a majestic white parade horse with a long, flowing mane and tail. The horse was called Duke, after the actor’s nickname. “It was kind of an inside joke,” Mitchum says.
    During the 40’s and 50’s The Duke’s favorite mount was a large bay named Banner, supplied by the Fat Jones stables. “He was intelligent and had an instinct for this business,” Wayne once said of Banner.


    In such films as Tall in the Saddle and The Conqueror, Wayne rode a stallion named Steel, one of the most famous horses of his era.
    Occasionally Wayne would take the reins of Cocaine, the stunt horse used by Chuck Roberson, who was Wayne’s double in more than 30 movies.


    In El Dorado The Duke rode Zip Cochise, an Appaloosa that was so small, Wayne appeared to be riding a pony.


    Then there are the horses Dollor and Dollar which have confused movie buffs at infinitum. Dollor, with an “o”, had a much wider blaze on his face and different stockings on his legs than Dollar, with an “a”. Wayne rode Dollor (o) in the charging scene in True Grit. Wayne rode Dollar (a) in the sequel, Rooster Cogburn, as well as in his final film, The Shootist."

  • From what I’ve read, Hawks wanted Duke to ride Cochise because the horse was trained to back. Not all horses know how to do this.


    My grandpa had a horse who could back but none of his other horses could.


    The command is to pull back on the reins while you tap the horse’s sides with your heals.


    You’ll see Duke do this in the scene where they back out of the ranch.

    Tbone



    "I have tried to live my life so that my family would love me and my friends respect me. The others can do whatever the hell they please."


  • The horse that laid down in Rio Grande wasn't Steel. He rode 5 horses in this movie(without the roman riding horses).


    1. Of course Steel
    2. Bingo
    3. The Horse that laid down (Cliff Lyons rode her/ him in the rest of the movie. The horses blaze is very similar to the one of Jack Williams horse Coco, but the leg markings are different).
    4. The horse he jumped over the fence (the same horse also jumped before they started the roman riding and in other scenes of the movie.)
    5. The horse in the church was again another one


    But I think you are right about the black rearing horse and the one that Joanne Dru and Claude Jarman rode. I also believe that most of the horses in these films belonged to Fat Jones.

  • Okay, folks, I'm back and I have a question!!! I want to know what horse the Duke is riding in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon. This horse doesn't seem nearly as impressive as the horse that he usually rides!!!


    I just read somewhere that Ben Johnson is supposed to be riding Steel in parts of the movie, and "in the galloping scenes, a horse named Bingo!" Whichever horse Ben is riding is surely an impressive piece of horse flesh!!!


    I just noticed that in the scene where they are leaving Flint Colehill behind with 2 Companies of soldiers at the river, JW appears to be riding a different horse. The blaze on its face is different, and there's a white sock on the right rear leg. I'll have to watch the movie again to make sure, but was hoping that someone else would have some info!!!

  • Okay, folks, I'm back and I have a question!!! I want to know what horse the Duke is riding in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon. This horse doesn't seem nearly as impressive as the horse that he usually rides!!!


    I just read somewhere that Ben Johnson is supposed to be riding Steel in parts of the movie, and "in the galloping scenes, a horse named Bingo!" Whichever horse Ben is riding is surely an impressive piece of horse flesh!!!


    I just noticed that in the scene where they are leaving Flint Colehill behind with 2 Companies of soldiers at the river, JW appears to be riding a different horse. The blaze on its face is different, and there's a white sock on the right rear leg. I'll have to watch the movie again to make sure, but was hoping that someone else would have some info!!!


    In She Wore A Yellow Ribbon John Wayne rode Banner. I think in the whole movie(I haven't seen a second horse). He also rode Banner in Fort Apache and 3 Godfathers.


    In Rio Grande, Angel and the Badman and Red River(in this movie another actor rode Banner) he rode another horse, I believe it called Henry.


    Henry had a white marking at his right back leg, Banner at his left. They also had their mane on different sides.


    Both, Banner and Henry, belonged to the Fat Jones stables.



    Did anyone know the name of the horse that John Wayne rode in The Searches and The Horse Soldiers? The same horse was ridden by John Dehner and Gregg Palmer in Revolt at Fort Laramie, Peter Graves in Fort Yuma and John Payne in Rebel in Town. Ben Johnson rode this horse also in Fort Bowie and War Drums. And I have also seen a picture of Pernell Roberts on this sorrel.

    Edited once, last by BJ_FA ().

  • I have a few corrections to my last post:


    1. According to Harry Carrey Jr. the horse that I called Henry named Hank (or Pank or something like this). Which also proofs that the horses name ain't Banner.


    2. I don't think Hank was owned by the Fat Jones Stables because in all of his movies he was along with horses from Hudkins Brother (including They Died with their Boots on and a lot of Republic westerns(Roy Rogers, Red Ryder & co). Petrine Day Mitchum wrote that all horses from these movies were provided by Hudkins). I saw Hank with Fat Jones horses just in Rio Grande and Red River (in both he was ridden by JW).


    3. He also rode Hank in War of the Wild Cats and The fighting Kentuckian


    4. In She Wore a Yellow Ribbon he rode Banner in the whole movie besides the scene were he jumped over the fence at Sudros.


    I also would like to mention that Banner was in a lot John Wayne westerns where he wasn't ridden by him, such as Tall in the Saddle, Red River and Rio Grande.



    As well I have done some research about Dollar and Dollor.


    John Wayne rode the same horse with a big blaze and 3 white socks in Chisum, The Undefeated, True Grit(before the fight) and the beginning of Rio Lobo (ofcourse in the most movies he rode more than one horse, for example there were 3 to 4 different sorrels he rode in Rio Lobo). Chuck Roberson wrote about Rio Lobo "[...]Duke's horse Dollar[...]" (e.g. "The Fall Guy", page 283). So I'm pretty sure this horse called Dollar.


    Then he has the sorrel with a more narrow blaze and two white socks at his back legs, which he rode in Big Jake and after Big Jake. I think this horse called Dollor. Also there is a Breyer modell from this horse called Dollor.


    The most sources call the first horse Dollar and the second Dollor (, besides the book "1000 famous horses" who called the first Dollar and the second Old Dollar, another named the second as "Dollor or Old Dollar"). A few like the one @kkaterinabella_007 recalls, as well as Petrine Day Mitchum in her book "Hollywood Hofbeats" say the first horse called Dollor and the second Dollar.

    Edited 3 times, last by BJ_FA ().