Dances with Wolves (1990)

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  • Great Movie! Two thumbs Up! Not the kind of movie you would want to watch on AMC though, with all the commercials, you'd have to have the day off!

  • My post disappeared. Oh well. I was told by a knowledgeable person that it was a must see and was quite authentic. I would love to see the extra stuff, although, like Gorch, not sure I would remember what is extra. Keith

    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE

  • I just watched this on my recently-purchased DVD in the 3 hour and 56 minute version and must say the movie is astounding. Like Hawkswill, I would be hardpressed to tell what was included from the 3 hour version, but wouldn't want to be without a second. Beautiful photography and story that makes one wonder if our nation wouldn't have been a whole lot better if we hadn't treated the Indians (and any other race) with such callousness!

    Cheers - Jay:beer:
    "Not hardly!!!"

  • "Dances with Wolves" - the close to 4 hour version. Epic and moving!


    Agreed, an outstanding and rich film. I try to watch it at least annually and I notice something new every time I watch. The cultural density is like no other.


    ...wonder if it's out on Blu-Ray yet...

    We're burning moonlight.

  • Agreed, an outstanding and rich film. I try to watch it at least annually and I notice something new every time I watch. The cultural density is like no other.


    ...wonder if it's out on Blu-Ray yet...



    Not me, I hate anti-American American films.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

  • Note to Moderator:


    I'm not certain this is an appropriate response for this thread or this post. It seemed to me that The Ringo Kid's view was a narrow way to categorise this particular film. If you feel it's right, please delete this note and allow the post...if not, then you know what to do.


    Thank you,


    R Jackson



    Not me, I hate anti-American American films.



    Somehow I've never seen Dances With Wolves as anti-American. It seems to me that it's more in illustration of a clash of cultures, industrial against paleolithic. Another point of view is that the first Americans, the Native Americans, had a valid way of living life before the Europeans arrived to commit genocide. Their lifestyles should also be celebrated and remembered. Native Americans are also Americans. As the first Americans, their history is also our history.


    There were many atrocities perpetrated by our white ancestors. The appropriate thing to do is not to deny that these atrocities happened, but to admit that they occurred and that they were wrong. Sweeping the bad stuff under the rug leads to the same thing happening again and again in this and in future generations.


    It is extremely painful to watch some scenes in Dances With Wolves. When Cisco is shot I'm always extremely angry. When the soldiers are firing at Two Socks I feel physical pain. It's a beautiful film and a great western. This country lost a great treasure when so many populations of its indigenous peoples were wiped out. Who knows what those lost peoples might have taught us, what we may have learned from them?


    Even in Dances With Wolves the Native Americans lost at the end.

    We're burning moonlight.

  • OK...I'm going to post a minor rebuttal to Peridot's previous post. I mean NO disrespect whatsoever, and I'll go to the mat defending her right to post what she did, but I don't entirely agree with her.


    This is NOT directed solely in response to Peridot's response, but speaks to a larger issue of revisionist history that has been popular since the '60s.


    While I completely agree with Peridot that the post to which she's referring is quite narrow in scope, I feel hers is also a bit narrow - at least in the overall "gist" of it.


    Peridot...if I missed the overall point of your post, please forgive me. I REALLY am not trying to cause trouble, just provide an expanded view.


    To say atrocities were ONLY perpetrated by Europeans is QUITE narrow, and flies directly in the face of the history of many of the tribes in this country.


    Indians (btw...nearly ALL members of this grouping, including myself - part Cherokee - PREFER this term) have feuded with one another for centuries, all the while raping, pillaging, and enslaving other tribe members in pursuit of "territory."


    Apaches were SO feared in Arizona and northern Mexico, because they (and their Mexican counterparts) would raid into Mexican villages and even other tribes committing all sorts of crimes against humanity. All in an effort to expand THEIR fiefdom


    We won't even get started on the Commanche, as they made the Apaches look almost civil.


    Before it looks like I'm trying to DEFEND any atrocities committed by Europeans, let me say that I'm familiar with the inhumane methods employed by a number of non-Indians, and I don't agree with them.


    I cannot (and WILL not) apologize for a previous generations actions, as that has nothing to do with me, but I won't support it, either.


    As residents of any region, you cannot declare that no one can "own" any plot of ground, yet at the same time declaring that you don't want "white" people to have it because "YOU" own it!


    It makes no sense.


    Having said all of that (forgive my longwindedness), I completely agree with a lot of what Peridot said, and the fact that history sometimes seems to have no alliance with the complete truth is a strong point for BOTH of us.


    I believe ALL cultures should be celebrated, but ignorance, bigotry, and racism are present (unfortunately) in all of them, and because of this, many "lost" cultures have been forgotten (many of them here in America, but gone before the white man arrived), and without an OBJECTIVE view from all sides...history could repeat itself.


  • Yes, I'm afraid that you did miss my point. However, there's no offense taken because you meant none. :wink_smile: You see, I wrote paragraphs and college papers worth of text on my post and then I deleted them...I tend to be far to verbose and preachy when I'm trying to make my point.


    Today if I were writing that post I might respond with fewer words: 'Indians were the first Americans.' I have problems with the black-and-white view that all the non-Indians who came to the US were good people and that all the Indians were bad and evil. That's a lie fed us when we were in school. Custer wasn't a big hero. The Indian wars murdered women and children and babies; slaughtered them in horrific ways. But don't get me started on that.


    My post was meant to remind people without going into a debate which could turn ugly that the Indians (I know the preference) were here first. They were the first Americans and their history is our history. Many of us have Indian heritage. (My sister's part Cherokee, an eighth, near as we can calculate.)


    If John Wayne were still around today I'm sure that he'd embrace these changes. He was a man of fair mind with a generous heart and he never turned away from a thing that was honest and right. He simply didn't live long enough to see how balanced things have become now. He'd laugh, pour a drink, slap Kevin Costner on the back and say, 'That was a helluva good movie you made, kid! How come you didn't ask me to be in it?'


    That's my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. John Wayne was a helluva good guy, and pretty much everyone here would agree with me on that point, at least I hope so.

    We're burning moonlight.



  • On the whole I believe we're in complete agreement, especially where I bolded your remark above. My point was, and it may have been too short to be clear, that the whites were not innocent of evil, nor was the Indian a free-living-in-harmony innocent roaming happy indigenous aboriginal, either. The only way to look at these cultural clashes is with eyes wide open on both sides.The Indians had a culture of war and there were diseases here in the pre-Columbian era. Nevertheless, it was a complete biological disaster when the French and Spanish came to Florida. The Timuaca people greeted the French on the St Johns River. They had large cities not only on the northern coasts of Florida but ranged centrally as far and wide as southern Georgia. In less than 200 years the Timucua people were extinct. Who knows what they might have taught us?


    All that remained of the Timucuana people were their shell middens, most of which were mined for road-building before their irreplaceable archaeological nature was known. I remember my parents driving me on shell roads, crushing our inestimable heritage under our the tires of our car. Shell mounds were once everywhere. They were loaded into dump trucks and spread onto roads to be smashed into atoms. The crunching sound of tires over the shells of our history still echoes in my ears today.


    Now you see why I deleted the majority of my post yesterday. Depressing, isn't it?


    Now, back on topic:


    6 Guns, a revenge-of-the-revengers western. A character based on the son of Tom Hall goes after the ex-sheriff who allegedly shot his father in the back. Children are murdered, a woman is raped and she wants revenge for her family.


    The best thing about this film is that three of Dick van Dyke's relatives are involved in its production. It was quite the stinker.

    We're burning moonlight.

  • AHHHH, this is the kind of thing that I thought this board was all about. Discussing, agreeing, disagreeing and talking about it. My, nice to find that it DOES exist instead of just things like "High Noon", "hot and rainy", etc. Good for you Russ and Ramona. Although, think I would have written RK a PM first before posting to the Mod. If you did......must not have gotten a nice answer. Did you? Just wondering. I remember a big to do a while back when it was just a kidding type thing.


    Russ....didn't know you were a breed!.......Just joking.......I am Indian also.....grandfather was Will Keith Hawks!


    Fun, enjoyed reading some interesting and knowledgeable input! Keith

    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE

  • Thanks for the well-reasoned response, Peridot. I really AM glad we can discuss things like this without it turning into a urinating contest! ; )


    The Mississippians were another tribe that were phased out by other tribes and other factors. Here in Tennessee, we have lots of mounds to remember them by, but TVA (in it's infinite "wisdom") created a new recreational area called Tellico Lake/Dam (NOT for flood control), that covered whole village sites (for the Mississippi AND Cherokee), so further research is impossible.


    Thanks to you too, Keith! I'm proud of my heritage of German, Welsh, Scots Irish, Cherokee, French, English, and Norweigen blood!!! I think it tends to give me a more "open" mind in these matters.

  • Although, think I would have written RK a PM first before posting to the Mod. If you did......must not have gotten a nice answer. Did you? Just wondering. I remember a big to do a while back when it was just a kidding type thing.
    Keith


    Whilst we do not have to explain board decisions,
    Peridot is under moderation on this forum, and has been for some time.
    I believe he is aware of that!
    As the only Mod available most of the time,
    it is therefore left to me to approve his posts.
    There was no requirement for a PM to a Mod.
    However, should he have done, I am sure
    he would have received a 'nice answer'!

    Best Wishes
    Keith
    London- England

    Edited 3 times, last by ethanedwards ().

  • LOL Russ, I am German, English, Irish, and, we believe, part Cherokee. My grandfather was born in far northeastern NC near the VA border, in a little town named Norlina. I believe the Cherokees left with their brothers when driven out from Dahlonega, Ga around 1835 or so because of the gold strike....not sure though. A friend now lives in Norlina, and I hope to find time to do a "little digging" on one of my visits. Pop was born in 1890 and used to tell me of our Indian blood when I was young.


    Yep, good to hear some real discussion, and apparently you are both well versed in the subject. Russ you amaze me more and more every day on your knowledge of such a vast amount of subjects! Enjoy it thoroughly! Keith

    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE

  • Mornin' Keith, (in my part of the world),


    Not quite sure what you meant by "Peridot under moderation and has been for some time". But, I DO believe that Peridot, or Ramona, is a female, LOL.
    I don't believe I asked for an explanation of the board decisions, but maybe that is not what you meant. I simply thought that Mona might have PMed RK, as I wrote in my post...RK, not a Mod....to perhaps work out with him the post in question. Thought I read that somewhere we should try to work out your differences.............probably just made it up in my mind.
    I was confused by your post...thought everyone knew Peridot was Ramona and a big fan of Richard Boone and Leonard Nimoy. Anyway, still confused, but I don't suppose it matters. Glad her post was left as it sparked a most interesting conversatation between her and Russ, Tennessean. Nice to see that sort of thing. Learned a great deal from it.
    Thanks for your post, confusing to "dumber than a rock me", as it was.
    The Other Keith


    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE



  • :wink_smile: She is well aware of that, and that's fine. :rose: She thought everyone was moderated at this board. If that's not the case for all on the board, it's a surprise to her, but it's certainly acceptable. She is always on her best behaviour everywhere, and hopes that you will forgive her speaking of herself in the third person just this once. :embaressed_smile:


    Lady Manners is always watching, you see.

    We're burning moonlight.

  • I am thoroughly confused on this matter. I would stay completely out of it, however, I was addressed about it.


    Hope I didn't throw a monkey wrench into anything. HAGO, KEITH

    God, she reminds me of me! DUKE

  • Americans like most peoples ancestors have done things in the past they would rather forget, no nation or state is perfect and the founding of most contains some blood shed and incidents that are unsavory. To suggest otherwise would be extremely ignorant. Too simply define something as anti-american is too simplistic and does not take into account all the facets that make up the nation, as I am sure to be American means many things too many different people and that most of the members here hold dear such values.

  • :wink_smile: She is well aware of that, and that's fine. :rose: She thought everyone was moderated at this board. If that's not the case for all on the board, it's a surprise to her, but it's certainly acceptable. She is always on her best behaviour everywhere, and hopes that you will forgive her speaking of herself in the third person just this once. :embaressed_smile:


    Lady Manners is always watching, you see.


    I have approved your posts as you have posted,
    but could not, after several attempts, alter the general moderation settings!
    However as you know, the moderation is now lifted.
    Thank you for your support.

    Best Wishes
    Keith
    London- England

    Edited 2 times, last by ethanedwards ().