Duke's Movie Soundtracks- Past Discussion (Archive)

The "Resurrectionist" lurks again!

Among my favorite scores for John Wayne movies - "The Alamo" and "The Sons of Katie Elder." Favorite title songs go to "El Dorado" and "The War Wagon."

Jay

As far as title music is concerned, I always have El Dorado playing in my head for a couple of days after watching the film. I also enjoy title music for Rio Lobo.

Over all music, The Alamo is probably my favorite. The Quiet Man is very good as well, hard not to be with all of the Irish music.

Just last night, we watched The Magnificent Seven, and thought the music sounded "familiar" for some reason. The more we listened, we realized it sounded like music from The Sons of Katie Elder, and also we recognized the theme from the old Marlboro cigarette commercials (you know, the song for the Marlboro man), which I believe was later used in the Great Western commercials.

Anyway, in checking on IMDb, we learned that Elmer Bernstein was credited with the original composition of music for that film - and as mentioned above, he did the music for The Sons of Katie Elder and also Big Jake.

I didn't spend a long time checking out the music of Elmer Bernstein, but I suspect he has done many other movies and music which I would recognize.

Chester

PS The Mrs. and I are also enjoying the resurrecting of old topics!

Hi Chester

Elmer Bernstein also composed

The Shootist,

McQ,

Cahill,

True Grit

The Commancheros
which I particularly like for its stirring start, nostalgic and even poignant middle section climbing to a rousing climax. I think at times the music seems to be fortelling the end of John Waynes career which I suppose is silly as the film was made in the 1960s, or perhaps it puts you in that mood, but I find it a very thought provoking and meloncholy piece.

Cast A Giant Shadow another stirring sound track

Non John Wayne pictures include

The Great Escape

The Scalphunters

The Hallelujah Trail

Gunsmoke

And for me also also a fantastic piece of music

The Ten Commandments

I sometimes wonder especially in view of the last piece if he wrote the music and they put the film to it rather than the other way around, because the two go together perfectly.

I have always enjoyed the opening music of El Dorado.

-ncb

Red River and The Conqueror soundtracks have always been 2 of my favorites, in terms of music running the length of the film.

As for openings, I'll take Sons Of Katie Elder, North To Alaska, El Dorado, The Alamo, and Circus World.

My favorite score in a JW film is the Bernstein theme in "The Sons of Katie Elder". That is music to stir mens' souls. :lol:

After watching the DVD copy of the "High and the Mighty" that I made up off of a not so good VHS Tape, I would go with that Music it is very Stirring!!! Chilibill

Hi

I think the music from the High and the Mighty is in a classs of its own.

But I also agree with most that the Sons of Katie Elder is also very very good.

I have the music from El Dorado on disc, Also the theme music from Chisum
but not the opening song which I also like.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Chester -

Elmer Bernstein also did the music for "True Grit."

Regards -

Jay

The JW movie themes that I liked the most and always got my complete attention are:

"The Green Leaves Of Summer" from: The Alamo. It sure is one VERY pretty piece of music.

Next i'd have to say that the theme to The Searchers is my next favorite.

Then the Guitar piece from Rio Lobo.

After this is definately Barry Sadler's The Green Berets in The Green Berets.

Following this the theme music from Fort Apache.

Then the piece from: The Longest Day.

After these i'd have to be a bit more patriotic with the Marine Hymn from Sands of Iwo Jima.

TRK.

for the opening music I would say El Dorado and Chisum and favourite themes in movies I think:

Stagecoach, The Alamo, The Comancheros and the music part at the end in True Grit when John Wayne is riding on blackie with Kim Darby that is one of the best music parts I have ever heard.

cya Jwfan

I was forgotten the theme of The Cowboys from John Williams

cya jwfan

If you compare the two different versions of Red River -
the originally intended Director's Cut which ran only outside the US -
and the so called "Book Version" for which Hawks had to settle because he had to cut his version -
you'll also find to slightly different soundtrack versions.
Of course, when Hawks had to cut his masterpiece due to legal actions taken by Howard Hughes, Tiomkin had to go back to the studio to conduct a new track as well. The differences are very subtle most of the time but very obvious in the final confrontation of Dunson/Matt where the most severe cuts had been made. Compare for instance the final shot of Dunson/Matt sitting on the ground.

I believe the one soundtrack released on CD is the Book Version. I haven't been able to find the different one. Anybody knows?

BTW, if you listen closely to the different Alamo-version you'll find that Dimitri had to work twice here again! Wherever Wayne had to make cuts, you'll hear that Tiomkin had to make those cuts work and alter the music accordingly. He was a very busy Russian, that Dimitri.

Hi Roland

I wrote to Big Trail some years ago when Tim did an appreaciation of Tiomkins movie music.

If you watch Rio Bravo his Settle Down or My Rifle My Pony and Me by Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin is Red River revisited, and if you follow closely the opening scene in which the only sound is the guitar playing, if you listen to the music you will find it is a melodic version of Marina Mine the theme music taken from the mid fifties picture Blowing Wild and normally sung by Frankie Laine.

Regards

Arthur

I think you may be confusing Red River with another of Hawk's movies, when you say legal action by Howard Hughes was taken. I just finished reading 'Shooting Star', and there are a couple of pages dedicated to this very topic. According to the book, what happened was Hawks started out directing 'The Outlaw', but left after a short time to work on another project. This put Hughes in a bind, and he finished directing the movie himself. However, one of the Hawk's scene that remained in the film was where Doc Holiday was trying to get Billy The Kid to draw, and starts shooting the ground, and nicking off the lobs of his ears. 6 years later, Hawks shot almost an identical scene at the end of 'Red River'. Hughes took him to court, and Hawks was ready to remove the scenes (seeing as it truly was a case of copyright infringement). Duke stepped in, and respectfully asked Hughes to let the scene remain intact. Hughes was good friends with Wayne, and his response was "Sure Duke, I was just waiting for you to ask". Duke went on to make 3 films for Hughes after this episode.

And to be honest, the book did mention what film Hawks made that had to get altered (because of Hughes), but I can't remember the name.

Falc, compare the "Book"-version with the Director's cut, you'll see what I mean. It's just exactly the showdown and the "nicking of the ears" (in this case Clift's) that caused the law suit because it was so similar to The Outlaw, and you'll find the most severe cuts in this scene. Which is also, as I mentioned, a different soundtrack because of the cutting. Wayne helped Hawks in the cutting room.

But the book version was also some other scenes short, like a short talk between Clift and Beery, the riding down the hill towards the indians, and of course, every time you see the diary there's a different dissolve in the other version.

I am a little confused I have the version featuring the diary, is my version lacking in certain scenes.

Robbie,
there are two versions, the so-called book-version, the originally intended version by Hawks (which is today the version generally released) and a shorter version which Hawks cut himself as well, using Walter Brennan's voice over instead of the diary dissolves. The difference is seven and a half minutes. But I wouldn't call that just a short version. Because it's dramatically different, it's a version all for itself. As I pointed out - and that's why I started this topic - there were two soundtracks as well. Similar in general, but different nevertheless. My original question was if somebody knows where to get Tiomkin's second version.

Myself, I'd like to go with author Must who wrote "Howard Hawks Storyteller": "If you haven't seen the book-version, you haven't seen Red River". In that book, the analyzis of Red River runs some dozen pages, including how the two different versions came about (lenght problems with United Artists and the legal threat by Howard Hughes). Try to get that one, it's a great read.