How very true
Posts by Johnc
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Also Robbie, it depends where it is ? It could be a long way from me
It major cinema companies put on a saturday matinee - like the old days that would great
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You too Smokey, I think getting some beer for indoors will be a safe bet here :teeth_smile:
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We mostly watch John wayne on t.v. or from our DVD's, some of the older members here ( including myself ) had the good fortune to see Duke on the big screen at the local cinema
Would'nt it be great if cinema's were to show Duke movie's on the big screen once again :teeth_smile:
Anyone for popcorn ?
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Today was awful driving weather, constant heavy rain - a TYPICAL english bank holiday
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I'll second that Chester, the thread could get messy
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Source: Wikipedia
----------------------------Early history
PredecessorsThe ancestor of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company was the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company, which manufactured the Volcanic lever action rifle of Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson. It was later reorganized into the New Haven Arms Company, its largest stockholder being Oliver Winchester. The Volcanic rifle used a form of "caseless" ammunition and had only limited success. Wesson had also designed an early form of rimfire cartridge which was subsequently perfected by Benjamin Tyler Henry. Henry also supervised the redesign of the rifle to use the new ammunition, retaining only the general form of the breech mechanism and the tubular magazine. This became the Henry rifle of 1860, which was manufactured by the New Haven Arms Company and was used in considerable numbers by certain Union army units in the civil war.
The "Winchester" Rifle
A Winchester Rifle, circa 1894
After the war Oliver Winchester continued to exercise control of the company, renaming it the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and had the basic design of the Henry rifle completely modified and improved to become the first Winchester rifle, the Model 1866, which fired the same .44 caliber rimfire cartridges as the Henry but had an improved magazine (with the addition of a loading gate on the right side of the receiver, invented by Winchester employee Nelson King) and, for the first time, a wooden forearm. The Henry and the 1866 Winchester shared a unique double firing pin which struck the head of the rimfire cartridge in two places when the weapon was fired, increasing the chances that the fulminate in the hollow rim would ignite the 28 or so grains of black powder inside the case.
Another extremely popular model was rolled out in 1873. The Model 1873 introduced the first Winchester center fire cartridge, the .44-40 WCF (Winchester Central Fire). These rifle families are commonly known as the "Gun That Won the West".
The Model 1873 was followed by the Model 1876 (or "Centennial Model"), a larger version of the '73, which utilized the same toggle-link action and brass cartridge elevator dating from the Henry. It was chambered for longer, more powerful cartridges such as .45-60 WCF, .45-75 WCF, and .50-95 WCF. The action was not strong enough to allow Winchester to achieve their goal of producing a repeating rifle capable of handling the .45-70 Government cartridge; this would not happen until they began manufacture of the Browning-designed Model 1886.
From 1883, John Browning worked in partnership with the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and designed a series of repeating rifles and shotguns, most notably the Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot, Winchester Model 1887 lever action shotguns , Model 1897, and Model 1912 shotguns; and the lever-action Model 1886, Model 1892, Model 1894 and Model 1895 (with a box magazine) rifles. Several of these are still in production today through winchester special order, though other companies such as Browning, Rossi, Navy Arms and others have revived several of the discontinued models. -
Source: Wikipedia
-----------------------------Prelude to battle
After Sam Houston received word that Santa Anna was leading a large force to San Antonio, James Bowie offered to lead volunteers to defend the Alamo from the expected attack. He arrived with 30 men on January 19,[13] where they found a force of 104 men with a few weapons and a few cannons but little supplies and gunpowder.[14] Houston knew that there were not enough men to hold the fort in an attack and had given Bowie orders to remove the artillery and blow up the fortification. Bowie and the Alamo captain, James C. Neill, decided they did not have enough oxen to move the artillery someplace safer, and they did not want to destroy the fortress. On January 26, one of Bowie's men, James Bonham, organized a rally which passed a resolution in favor of holding the Alamo. Bonham signed the resolution first, with Bowie's signature second.[15]
Through Bowie's connections due to his marriage and his fluency in Spanish, the predominantly Mexican population of San Antonio often furnished him with information about the movements of the Mexican army. After learning that Santa Anna had 4,500 troops and was heading for the city.[15] Bowie wrote several letters to the provisional government asking for help in defending the Alamo, especially "men, money, rifles, and cannon powder".[16] In another letter, to Governor Smith, he reiterated his view that "the salvation of Texas depends in great measure on keeping Bexar out of the hands of the enemy. It serves as the frontier picquet guard, and if it were in the possession of Santa Anna, there is no stronghold from which to repel him in his march toward the Sabine."[16] The letter to Smith ended, "Colonel Neill and myself have come to the solemn resolution that we will rather die in these ditches than give it up to the enemy."[16]
On February 3, William Travis arrived with an additional 30 troops, and several days later Davy Crockett appeared with twelve Tennesseans. Neill went on furlough on February 17 to visit his sick family, leaving Travis, a member of the regular army, in command.[16] Bowie was older than Travis with a better reputation and considered himself a colonel, thus outranking Travis, a major.[17][18] He refused to answer to Travis, who called an election for the men to choose their own commander. They chose Bowie, infuriating Travis.[17] Bowie celebrated his appointment by getting very drunk and causing havoc in San Antonio, releasing all prisoners in the local jails and harassing citizens. Travis was disgusted, but two days later the men agreed to a joint command; Bowie would command the volunteers, and Travis would command the regular army and the volunteer cavalry.[17][19]
Alamo defenders
The Alamo
Various people had also assembled to help in the defensive effort, including several unofficial volunteers under the command of Jim Bowie. The youngest, Galba Fuqua, was 16, and one of the oldest, Gordon C. Jennings, was 57.
In the United States, the siege of the Alamo was seen as a battle of American settlers against Mexicans, but many of the Tejanos sided with the rebellion. Many viewed this struggle in similar terms with the American Revolution of 1776. The Tejanos wanted Mexico to have a loose central government which supported states rights as expressed in the 1824 Constitution. One Tejano combatant at the Alamo was Captain (later Colonel) Juan Nepomuceno Seguín, who was sent out as a dispatch rider before the final assault. Other Tejanos include Toribio Losoya and Gregorio Esparza, whose entire family waited out the siege inside the Alamo.
The defenders of the Alamo came from many places besides Texas. William Barret Travis and James Butler Bonham were both from Saluda County, South Carolina, and Travis had spent some time in Alabama. Jim Bowie was born in Kentucky but spent most of his life in Louisiana. From Tennessee came another small group of volunteers led by famous hunter, politician and Indian-fighter David "Davy" Crockett who was accompanied by Micajah Autry, a neighbor and lawyer. The 12-man "Tennessee Mounted Volunteers" arrived at the Alamo on February 8. The previous month David Crockett had resigned from politics having told his peers that "You may go to hell, I will go to Texas."[citation needed]
Another group, the "New Orleans Greys", came from that city to fight as infantry in the revolution. The two companies comprising the Greys had participated in the Siege of Béxar in December. Most of the Greys then left San Antonio de Béxar for an expedition to Matamoros, Tamaulipas, with the promise of taking the war to Mexico, but about two dozen remained at the Alamo.
The question of the Alamo defenders' politics has been controversial. The abrogation of the Constitution of 1824 was a key trigger for the revolt in general, yet many Americans in Texas had strong sympathies for independence or union with the United States. And for many of them, the right to own slaves was a key issue. While the political climate would have been more favorable earlier during 1835 for a reliance on such a Constitution, things changed towards the fall of that year. When the Texians defeated the Mexican garrison at the Alamo in December 1835, their flag did have the word INDEPENDENCE on it. Letters written from the Alamo expressed that "all here are for independence",[citation needed] and the famous letter from Travis referred to their "flag of Independence". Some 25 years after the battle, historian Reuben Potter made the assertion that reinstatement of the Constitution of 1824 was a primary objective, and Potter's comments have also been the source of a myth that the battle flag of the Alamo garrison was some sort of Mexican tricolor with "1824" on it.[citation needed]
SiegeLieutenant Colonel William Travis was able to dispatch riders before the battle and as late as March 3 informing the Texas provisional government of his situation and requesting assistance. However, Sam Houston's Texas Army was not strong enough to fight through the Mexican Army and relieve the post. The provisional Texas government was also in disarray because of in-fighting among its members. Travis also sent several riders, including James Bonham, to Colonel James Fannin for assistance. Fannin, commander of over 450 Texas forces at Goliad 100 miles (160 km) southeast of the Alamo, attempted an unorganized relief march with 320 men and cannon on February 28 to the Alamo, but he aborted the relief column, citing poor transportation. On March 27, Fannin and most of his men were slaughtered by a Mexican force after surrendering.
On March 1 at about 1 a.m., 32 Texians led by Captain George Kimbell and John W. Smith from the town of Gonzales slipped through the Mexican lines and joined the defenders inside the Alamo. They would be the only response to Travis' plea for help. The group became known as the "Immortal 32."[20]
Final assault
"The Fall of the Alamo" by Robert Jenkins Onderdonk depicts Davy Crockett in a charge at the Mexican troops who have breached the walls of the mission.
At the end of 12 days the number of Mexican forces attacking the post was reported as high as 4,000 to 5,000, but only about 1,400 to 1,600 soldiers were used in the investment and the final assault. 6,500 soldiers had originally set out from San Luis Potosí, but illness and desertion had since reduced the force. The siege was calculated and professionally conducted in the Napoleonic style. After a 13-day period in which the defenders were tormented with bands blaring at night (including buglers sounding the no-mercy call El Degüello, which literally translates into "slit throat"), occasional artillery fire, and an ever closing ring of Mexicans cutting off potential escape routes, Santa Anna planned the final assault for March 6. Santa Anna raised a blood red flag which made his message perfectly clear. No quarter would be given for the defenders.
Lieutenant Colonel Travis wrote in his final dispatches: "The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered their demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat."[21]
The Mexican army attacked the Alamo in four columns plus a reserve and a pursuit and security force, starting at around 5:00 a.m. The first column of 300 to 400 men led by Martín Perfecto de Cos moved towards the northwest corner of the Alamo. The second was of 380 men commanded by Colonel Francisco Duque. The third column comprised 400 soldiers led by Colonel José María Romero. The fourth comprised 100 cazadores (light infantry) commanded by Colonel Juan Morales. The attacking columns had to cover 200 to 300 yards (180 to 275 m) of open ground before they could reach the Alamo walls. To prevent any attempted escape by the fleeing Texians or reinforcements from coming in, Santa Anna placed 350 cavalry under Brigadier General Ramírez y Sesma to patrol the surrounding countryside.
The Texians initially pushed back one of the attacking columns, although Cos' column was able to breach the Alamo's weak north wall, which was just a plain wooden palisade, fairly quickly where the first defenders fell — among them William Barret Travis, who was allegedly killed by a shot to the head. Meanwhile, the rest of Santa Anna's columns continued the assault while Cos's men flooded into the fortress. The Alamo defenders were spread too thin to adequately defend both the walls and the invading Mexicans. By 8:00 that morning, nearly all of the Alamo defenders had been slain in brutal hand-to-hand combat. Jim Bowie is reported by some survivors to have been bayoneted and shot to death in his cot. The battle, from the initial assault to the capture of the Alamo, lasted only an hour. According to several reports, a group of male survivors were executed after the battle. [22] [23] According to one report Davy Crockett was among them, but the provenance of the document making this claim has been questioned by a number of experts (see below for more details).[23]
Casualties- Mexican: There are wide variations among reports regarding the number of Mexican casualties at the Alamo. However, some historians and military analysts accept those reports which place the number of Mexican casualties at approximately 200 deaths and 400 wounded. (See below "Mexican Casualties")
- Texan: 183 to 250 Texian and Tejano bodies were found at the Alamo after the battle, though Santa Anna's official report back to Mexico City, dictated to his personal secretary Ramón Martínez Caro, stated 600 rebel bodies were found. Historians believe this to be a false claim. All but one of the bodies were burned by the Mexicans; the sole exception being Gregorio Esparza, who was buried rather than burned because his brother Francisco had served as an activo and had fought under General Cos in the Siege of Béxar.[citation needed]
Alamo survivors- Susanna Dickinson
- Angelina Dickinson
- Joe, the slave of William B. Travis
- Sam the slave of Jim Bowie
- Juana Navarro Alsbury
- Alijo Perez Jr. (he was the last living survivor of the Alamo battle, he died in 1918)
- Gertrudis Navarro
- Ana Esparza
- Enrique Esparza
- Francisco Esparza
- Manuel Esparza
- María de Jesús Castro
- Trinidad Saucedo
- Petra Gonzales
- Brígido Guerrero
- Henry Wornell
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In answer to Robbie's question
-----------------------------------------------Early life
Patrick Floyd Garrett was born in Chambers County, Alabama (near present day Cusseta). He grew up on a prosperous Louisiana plantation near Haynesville in northern Claiborne Parish, just below the Arkansas state line. He left home in 1869 and found work as a cowboy in Dallas County, Texas.
In 1875, he left to hunt buffalo. In 1878, Garrett shot and killed a fellow hunter who charged at Garrett with a hatchet over a disagreement over buffalo hides. Upon dying, the hunter brought Garrett to tears upon asking him to forgive him.
Garrett moved to New Mexico and briefly found work as a cowpuncher before quitting to open his own saloon. A tall man, he was referred to by locals as "Juan Largo" or "Long John." In 1879, Garrett married Juanita Gutierrez, who died within a year. In 1880, he married Gutierrez's sister, Apolonaria. The couple had nine children.
Portrait of Pat Garrett from The Story of the Outlaws[2]
Lincoln County WarOn November 7, 1880, the sheriff of Lincoln County, New Mexico, George Kimbell, resigned with two months left in his term. As Kimbell's successor, the county appointed Garrett, a member of the Republican Party who ran as a Democrat and a gunman of some reputation who had promised to restore law and order. Garrett was charged with tracking down and arresting a friend from his saloon keeping days, Henry McCarty, a jail escapee and Lincoln County War participant who often went by the aliases Henry Antrim and William Harrison Bonney, but is better known as "Billy the Kid". McCarty was an alleged murderer who had participated in the Lincoln County War. He was said to have killed twenty-one men, one for every year of his life, but the actual total was probably closer to nine. New Mexico Governor Lew Wallace had personally put a $500 reward on McCarty's capture.
During a December 19 shootout, Garrett killed Tom O'Folliard, a member of McCarty's gang. A few nights later, the sheriff's posse killed Charlie Bowdre, captured The Kid and his companions, and transported the captives to Mesilla, New Mexico, for trial. Though he was convicted, The Kid managed to escape from jail on April 18, 1881, after killing his guards J. W. Bell and Bob Olinger.
On July 14, 1881, Garrett visited Fort Sumner to question a friend of The Kid's about the whereabouts of the outlaw. He learned that The Kid was staying with a mutual friend, Pedro Maxwell (son of land baron Lucien Maxwell). Around midnight, Garrett went to Maxwell's house. The Kid was asleep in another part of the house but woke up hungry in the middle of the night and entered the kitchen where Garrett was standing in the shadows. The Kid did not recognize the man standing in dark. "Quien es (Who is it)? Quien es?" The Kid asked repeatedly. Garrett replied by shooting at The Kid twice, the first shot hitting him in the heart, and the second one did not hit him. (Some historians have questioned Garrett's account of the shooting, alleging the incident happened differently. They claim that Garrett went into Paulita Maxwell's room and tied her up. The Kid walked into her room, and Garrett ambushed him with a single blast from his Sharps rifle.)
There has been much dispute over the details of the Kid's death that night. The way Garrett allegedly killed McCarty without warning eventually sullied the lawman's reputation. Garrett claimed that Billy the Kid had entered the room armed with a pistol, but no gun was found on his body. Other accounts claim he entered carrying a kitchen knife. There is no hard evidence to support this; however, if he did so it is likely he intended to cut some food for himself, since he had no idea anyone was waiting for him. Regardless of how he died, Billy was a wanted criminal, and so Sheriff Garrett chose not to give him a chance to surrender.
Still, at the time the shooting solidified Garrett's fame as a lawman and gunman, and led to numerous appointments to law enforcement positions, as well as requests that he pursue outlaws in other parts of New Mexico.
After the Lincoln County WarHis law enforcement career never achieved any great success following the Lincoln County War, and he mostly used that single era in his life as his stepping-stone to higher positions. After finishing out his term as sheriff, Garrett became a rancher and released a book ghostwritten by his friend Ash Upson in 1882 about his experiences with McCarty. However, he lost the next election for Lincoln County sheriff and was never paid the $500 reward for McCarty's capture, since he had allegedly killed him. In 1884, he lost an election for the New Mexico State Senate. Later that year, he left New Mexico and helped found and captain a company of Texas Rangers.
He returned to New Mexico briefly in 1885. In October 1889, Garrett ran for Chaves County, New Mexico, sheriff but lost. By this time, his rough disposition was beginning to wear thin with much of the populace, and rumors of his less than admirable killing of Billy The Kid were beginning to affect his popularity. Garrett left New Mexico in 1891 for Uvalde, Texas. He returned to New Mexico in 1896 to investigate the disappearance of Albert Jennings Fountain and Fountain's young son Henry. -
We have the Easter Holidays coming up
Forecast is for rain and more rain - great !
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Thanks for the link Bill, I enjoyed reading that
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Robbie
I found this explanation for the term 'Old Bill'
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The police were named the Old Bill after the act of parliament that empowered them. Apparently, pre-uniform, they were required to show their credentials in order to make arrests etc. So they all carried around a copy of the act of parliament.[/FONT]
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Hi Robbie
I will have to look deeper into the term 'Old Bill', my initial thought would be associated with the Crown Court named the 'Old Bailey'
But that is a guess at the moment
Regards
John
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source: Wikipedia
John Simpson Chisum (15 August 1824 – 20 December 1884) was a wealthy cattle baron in the American West in the mid-to-late 1880s. Born in Hardeman County, Tennessee, Chisum's family moved to Texas in 1837, with Chisum finding work as a building contractor. He also served as county clerk in Lamar County. John Chisum got involved in the cattle business in 1854 and became one of the first to send his herds to New Mexico. He obtained land along the Pecos River by right of occupancy and eventually became the owner of a large ranch in the Bosque Grande, about forty miles south of Fort Sumner, with over 100,000 head of cattle. In 1866-67, Chisum formed a partnership with cattlemen Charles Goodnight and Oliver Loving to assemble and drive herds of cattle for sale to the Army in Fort Sumner and Santa Fe, New Mexico.
When Chisum died in Eureka Springs on 20 December 1884, he was unmarried and left his estate worth $500,000 to his brothers Pitzer and James. While living in Bolivar, Texas, he lived with a young slave girl named Jensie and had two daughters with her. The relationship is described in the book, "Three Ranches West." John had an extended family living with him at the South Springs ranch in Roswell, and this family, along with hired help, often numbered two dozen at the main ranch headquarters. Chisum's niece Sallie Chisum, the daughter of his brother James, became a beloved figure in the area where she lived until 1934. Both she and her uncle John are honored by statues to their memory at Roswell and Artesia.
Lincoln County WarChisum was a business associate of Alexander McSween, a principal figure in the Lincoln County War. With money, advice, and influence behind the scenes, he played a role in the dispute between the opposing factions of cattle farmers and business owners. When Lewis Wallace took office as Governor of New Mexico on 1 October 1878, he proclaimed an amnesty for all those involved in the bitter feud. However, after Billy the Kid surrendered to the authorities, he was told he would be charged with the killing of Sheriff William J. Brady.
Billy the Kid escaped from custody and went to see Chisum. Billy believed he was owed $500, but Chisum refused to pay, claiming that he had given Billy horses, supplies, and protection over the years in lieu of payment. Billy the Kid responded by promising to steal enough cattle to make up this sum. Billy's gang also stole from other cattlemen and became a serious problem in Lincoln County. His gang included Dave Rudabaugh, Billy Wilson, Tom O'Folliard and Charlie Bowdre.
In 1880, Chisum was involved in getting Pat Garrett elected as sheriff of Lincoln County. Garrett immediately attempted to deal with the problems being caused by Billy the Kid. In December 1880, Garrett shot dead two of the Kid's gang, Tom O'Folliard and Charles Bowdre. Soon afterwards Billy the Kid, Dave Rudabaugh and Billy Wilson were captured by Garrett. -
The First Police Badge
Some historians speculate that the first police badge ever issued was done so in or about 1845 in London, England where the first police department was established.
Incidentally, the first police badges were made of copper, and many believe that "copper" became a nickname for police officers, and, ultimately, it was shortened to cops.
Police Badges TodayToday, police badges come in all shapes and sizes. Some departments' identities are associated with their badge like the classic NYPD detective badge or the ovalish LAPD patrol officer badge.
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No, problem Robbie, its been a while since I have seen it :teeth_smile:
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Chester
I hope Bill see's this thread and posts some photos/info on his collection
Sounds very interesting
Thanks
John
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Right Stumpy, I will take a look, thanks for the link
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We see them in nearly all westerns, they are usually the symbol of the 'good guy' but that tin star the sheriffs badge is worthy of discussion as my inquisitive mind has come up with some questions ?? :teeth_smile:
When were they 1st used ? How many different types were there? different designs etc?
The history of the sheriff's badge seems interesting, so if any members know more about them I would like to read their posts
Regards
John
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I'll try my best SX