Films still considered lost/missing.
Words and Music (1929)
Speakeasy (1929)
The Forward Pass (1929)
The Oregon Trail (1936)
No reference copies available from Library of Congress or UCLA Archives.
LOC
Annie Laurie (1927)
The Deceiver (1931)
That's My Boy (1932)
Adventure's End (1937)
UCLA
Cheer Up and Smile (1930)
Three Girls Lost (1931)
Girls Demand Excitement (1931)
I was able to get Noah's Ark a couple years ago. I've been to the LOC and what they do have is not worth using.
I received the update that Lenny above posted and I believe we know the same guy. He is very informative and has been helping me a great deal at LOC on my many travels there. Most of what Lenny says is true except that I have been told by a few people there that the LOC copy is actually in good shape. I have also tried many times to view the film but as Lenny stated, it has to be for a documentary film project, college paper, etc. I am starting to also talk to people about doing a documentary on John Wayne's "lost" films to get in with that angle.
I doubt we talked to the same individual since I know this guy in real life and have known him for many years. He doesn't answer the phone or even talk to outsiders about things like this. I met him when I worked in DC years ago and we used to go sailing together. But anyway, he actually went down and looked at the film the last time we talked and he said it would be hard to get a decent copy made from the master because of it's condition. And they will NOT make you a copy to take out of the LOC, the copy they make is only for viewing and taking notes at the LOC. You can't bring in any recording equipment and to say you're making a documentary they have to have documentation to that effect, copyright releases, commitment papers from a production company for the documentary. He said they've had people try to scam them before and they always get denied access.
Thanks for the info Ivellek. You sound like you know what your talking about. I guess our only hope is that guy in Canada. ( assuming he's for real ) the one with the 16mm print.
Second, the guy in Canada is a hoax. This has been verified by the studios that were also looking for something like what they found for The Alamo. That project is dead also. The film has been mishandled and there is no money or approval for the project. As I've said before I work in the licensing, copyright, marketing and trademark department for a film related company. Companies like Columbia, Universal, MGM & Fox take the time to do BR releases they are proud of. Paramount was able to purchase the Republic films cheap so they took the cheap route with Olive so they could make some money. A perfect example is the recent release by Columbia of the film The Bridge On The River Kwai on BR. It came with a 35 page booklet, 12 reproduced lobby cards all in a 1" hardcover case. Compared to the Olive releases where they wouldn't even spend money on licensing a decent image for the covers, so they used old film posters which are not copyrighted to get off cheap and they even look cheap in my opinion.
Display MoreLenny,
I am sorry that you seem offended in some way,
and only hope this doesn't you away from our board,
which we consider to be one of the friendliest on the net.
I feel sure a PM to the member/s involved could have sorted this.
In the meantime, thanks you theis update
Last, I wasn't so much offended as I was angered by your hypocritical comments here and in the other section I posted in. You seem to be upset at someone who has to deal with an intense set of rules but has successfully done so for 6 years now. I met the individual a few times, once when he was invited out to Newport Beach and given the grand tour. I hear Bert even gave him and his wife a private tour of the Wild Goose. I met him at the JWCF dinner in 2011. They all seem to like him and his on-the-spot knowledge is amazing. This might be a decent forum if you want to talk about all the old westerns but they won't allow him to let that forum go that way. I won't go on anymore, I like the guy and I like the other forum. I've never heard Ethan or any of them say a harsh word about him. If he was the demon you make him out to be he wouldn't be starting his 7th year over there.
When I met him we became friends and I ended up joining that forum and have made lots of friends over there. I post over here and the first thing I get are negative comments about him. I guess that's it for now.
I haven't been back in awhile simply because after my last post some comments were made about someone I know that were upsetting and uncalled for. So I will make this comment and am not sure if I will be back.
Apparently many of you don't understand about the list of films that are considered missing or lost. I have a good friend that works in the movie section of the Library of Congress and chatted with him yesterday. He's been there quiet a while and is actually getting ready to retire. We went into some detail about the lost films of John Wayne and he gave me some insight about what is and is not a viable copy of a film.
Let's take Adventure's End from 1937. Back in 1975 Universal Pictures gave their composite master positive to AFI - American Film Institute for verification (their records indicate the master is in fair condition) and transfer to the Library of Congress. After AFI viewed the film they turned it over to the LOC. Since then (38 years ago) it has been in the hands of the Library of Congress and will remain so in perpetuity. Actually a composite master positive is not even a type of media that can be viewed except by using it to make a digital copy and then viewing the copy. My friend said their records show it has been at the Library since 1975 and will remain there unless requested by the copyright holder. It's not something that can be made available to the public or to anyone just walking in the door wanting to see the film.
The LOC would have to make a digital copy (reference copy) of the composite master and then make it available to the person requesting it but to request it is almost impossible. You have to be a licensed researcher and have a letter from your organization stating that you need to view the film for something that will eventually be made available to the public like a book or a documentary. The film can only be viewed and take notes but the film can not be copied and they won't allow recording equipment in the room you'd use to view the film. A college student could also have the same access if the head of the university verified that it is imperative to the student that they see the film for their education and again be making something that will eventually be made available to the public just like the researcher.
He also told me in the 25+ years he's been at the LOC maybe a handful of films were requested because there are so many hoops to jump through. The only other way is for Universal to request the film back and make a dupe from the master for reproduction and he's never seen that done. Typically the masters are not in very good shape.
We've both talked to the studios on the phone and get the same answer every time. The masters are in poor shape and the bottom line won't allow it. The last one I talked to was Columbia about That's My Boy and The Deceiver. It's not in the cards because the money is not there. They couldn't sell enough copies to make up for the cost of reproduction and mass marketing. There are just not as many fans around as there were 30 years ago after John Wayne died.
Lenny
