One of my favorites also, Kevin. Love it that Ward is Duke's "boss" in most of the movie. The hat throw was great.....still want to get someone who can read lips to tell us what Duke said to Ward.,boy was he mad! He said in later interviews that it hit right on his nipple and hurt like H..L. I WILL find someone who can read lips to tell us what he said to Ward. Too bad my Dad is gone.....he could have told us.
Watching the Searchers on TCM. My favorite John Wayne movie.
I got the same Idea......maybe we will be pleasantly surprised. But I am buying Ward, Duke and Pappy's book first, LOL! I don't imagine you are shocked by that.
After reading the amazon ad material, I'm not sure that the making of The Film "The Searchers" is the focus of the book. It seems to be more about the physical abduction and life of Cynthia Ann Parker and the concomitent (ahem) scar upon the American psyche.
Of course, this is the inspiration for the film, but don't expect to find a day by day detailed of the making of it. I believe it will be interesting reading. Just don't be mislead.
We deal in lead, friend.
Thanks everyone. I thought some of you would be interested. Notice that Duke's calls are diverted to Mary St. John. Also that the General Custer character was cast.
I thought the addresses were incomplete but zip codes hadn't been invented yet.
We deal in lead, friend.
LOL, told Peter to check it out after I had found it.....don't know how we all missed it except, there were so many posts on that one email...strange.
You didn't comment on the fact that Ward lives here.......suppose you decided you had better skip that, LOL...........old batty Keith!
Just now saw it Bill. Very first thing I saw was Frank McGrath...then looked up higher and saw Terry Wilson. Couldn't read it all, I need to magnify it a bit. Really cool, can't wait to read everything. But, it is almost 5 am, and I haven't fallen asleep yet, LOL! Need to try to get a couple of hours. Thanks Bill, will look at the others.......all on one page. I have noticed that a few times..........wonder why they are doing that? Don't need a Quiji board to talk to Ward....do it all the time. He lives here, didn't you know that? LH
Surprised that no one commented on the cast and crew call sheets for "The Searchers". We have the entire crew confirmed, including the stunt players, and Duke's office telephone number in case anyone would like to venture a call.
Figured Hawkswill would at least try to get a ouija board and contact Ward Bond.
Can't win 'em all.
We deal in lead, friend.
he also had the right hand over this left arm stance in the three texas steers
I haven't even HEARD of that before...must look it up. I must be a lot more dense than I thought. I don't remember your pic to being that of Duke on Zip Cochise in El Dorado. Maybe I am just noticing it because of the recent posts?
Love all your pics also Carl! KEITH Sure wish you hadn't lost so many.
Yes,it was rather strange that they were SO CLOSE to them. All of a sudden a rather wide gap developed between them.......probably when they stopped and took Duke's horse that I call "Spot" over to let Scar ride, LOL! Boy, are yall getting close or what, Jim?
Bought my first DVD to start a collection: John Wayne, the Tribute Collection $5. Has about 23 Bs, Angel and the Badman and McClintock. Most important was the interview with Ford in Monument Valley I had never seen. Hank Fonda actually HUGGED him, LOL.KPKEITH OT, sorry.
And it was Very muddy at the Jorgensen's. Not much of the other water seen in the movie is like that except for that mud hole Scar's group went through on the way to the River. Wonder why our guys didn't hit that mud hole, LOL? Also, I have ridden many horses into water,either standing or small running rivers that we slid down into on our horses' rumps. Some times we have all been going at a good "clip". And NO ONE's horse fell. Yet, all the Indians seemed to have their horses fall.....strange! Maybe Pappy just felt like doling out a little more money to the Navajos that day! KPKEITH
Hi Mark, well GOOD FOR YOU. That is a very astute observation. Were you "searching" for discrepancies or did it just jump out in your mind? I just went in and pulled up those scenes. I am 99.5 % certain that you are right. I believe that maybe the Look Scene, (I really loved her performance and believe as said in the commentaries that Marty's kicking her out of bed was not liked well now....it even said that Pappy was a bit uncomfortable with it...if you believe Peter, LOL), was filmed from the stage right of the Jorgensen's ranch. Sort of just around on the right side.
I have found something in The Horse Soldiers after over 100 watchings that confuses me. I will post it there, and hopefully some of yall will be able to help me with it. It LOOKS as if Duke is overacting treMENdously!
Way to go Mark....thanks for pointing it out. Shows how observant I am. This is the fourth time I have gotten The Searchers and watched parts of it hundreds of times.......never caught that. You Go Get 'em, Mark! KPKEITH
Hondo, I am not sure if I posted this here or not, but I find it funny to see FINALLY after over a hundred watchings, that Frank Mcgrath was a Ranger in the "wedding"scene and the fight scene. But, he was also the bugler that young Patrick Wayne brought back with him before the raid on Scar's camp. In one place you see a Union Soldier, (supposed to be Patrick), on his horse jump a pole in front of a lodge. Then comes another Union trooper. If you frame by frame, you will see that it is Frank McGrath. He takes a good look at the jump and barely corrects his horse. Then, he raises his head straight up and pretends to be blowing the bugle while NEVER looking at the jump his horse was making. His head came down after the front feet of his horse hit the ground. Frank McGrath not an excellent rider........not much, LOL! Know my horses, KPKEITH Wonder if you ever checked my details?
Display MoreYou know Hawkswill that was so accurate and in my thoughts, so correct. You are very observant in that scene with the players it's almost scary. Such detail in stage direction from your observations. I don't know all the characters you mention, but it seems that your details are dead on. And I imagine that you are telling me that Terry Wilson and Frank McGrath were playing multiple parts in the movie.
Would you say that most western movies do that? Meaning these EXTRAS may be seen playing multiple parts and positions in the same movie?
Very interesting post. I'll have to look closely at your description. Thanks for the heads up.
CheersHondo
True Robbie. That is why they usually ask you to correct or add things like Wikipedia does. I know after so great many watchings, I just missed a lot of the things reported. KPKEITH
Wow, that was a lot of mistakes and a very astute Hondo or Keith, whomever it was. I have seen this over a hundred times, some with commentary and about 2/3s without. I missed some of those. One thing not mentioned that greatly POed me, (I thought I had Duke's horse thing all figured out....Colorado Bob is going to help me with it). This concerns the horse that Duke rides when he is near the ranch, (except for the hard snowing scene where he says,"Sure as......the turning of the Earth"), and the one he rides in the charge on Scar's camp and into and out of the lodge...I call him Spot because I don't know his name, and he has a Spot on his blaze. Ethan rides him across the river and they all get ready for the charge by Scar and band. Guess what horse, bigger than life, Scar is sitting on? You got it, SPOT! DANG. Also, the horse Duke rode when Marty was trying to keep him from going to Debbie was NOT Spot, (had FOUR white stockings and didn't have the neck marks). Must have been a Movie Stable horse trained to "lightly spook", but not go into a bucking, sidewinding motion. Because,when Marty raises his hands, the horse begins his "act". Bogdonovich comments that you just can't make a horse do that, (assuming it is the same horse and one of Pappy's beloved accidents). However, it could have had a rather drastic ending with those hooves flying in the air up and down, as the horse had decided to turn toward Jeffrey Hunter. Go frame by frame and watch as Duke leans far to the left in the saddle and severely BIT reins the horse trying to get his head and him pointed left. He finally does and gets him to turn around ensuring Jeffrey Hunter's safety. Not too sure how much Hunter knew about horses, but if he knew much, he would have put a hand on the horse and let the horse "move" him away from him.....in other words allowing the shot to go on as begun. Since he just remained where he was, Duke had to do the turn around. I hate to think what would have happened if that horse's hooves had come down on Jeffrey Hunter. The Searchers MAY have ended as the Horse Soldiers did!
And whomever said Duke really didn't ride that well....excuse me, don't believe that language is allowed here, LOL! Horses are my "thing". KPKEITH
* Audio/visual unsynchronized: During the shootout with the Indians at the river, Rev. Capt. Claytons' gun is emptied and Ethan throws him a loaded gun; Clayton throws his hat and hits Ethan. Ethan is moving his lips and saying something but, there is no sound.
That was one of my questions to see if we have any LIP READERS here, (my Dad was one). Because that was NOT supposed to be in the movie. That was one Duke Wayne furious with his friend Ward Bond for what surely looks like a direct "nipple" shot with a hard brimmed hat, LOL. You notice he drops his rifle and really tells him......could have been "son of a
.....". Pappy left it in because we all know how he LOVES "accidents".
KPKEITh
Yep, it was, my friend. Pappy Ford would NEVER admit to symbolism.....asking about that would cut an interview as short as asking about the darkening of his later pictures. You should listen to Bogdonovich's older commentaries on the DVDs. He makes some superb symbolism points but learned quickly not to question Pappy Ford on them...one actually shows Ford saying "CUT". He always said it was "just a job of 'werk'". Good eyes! But, he WILL admit to having a great eye for composition and that was about all....where he got it, he didn't know. One of the massive understatements in the movie business,LOL!
Ride hard but don't put him up wet! KPKEITH
Thanks to DukeFanI and Gorch. Well, you taught me something. Didn't know exactly why Pappy gave Roberson the name...thanks!
Anybody know how to keep the other posts on the same page as the one your are commenting on. Sure would be easier to answer everything that way. Also, anyway of just clicking on the new posts and going right to them?
Changed my profile pic because none of the others seem to keep working. I have an album open to the public. Any of yall have albums? Do many people "friend" others or is this a pretty closed group? No one has checked my profile...don't think anyway.
Did yall post on Bogdonovich's blog on The Searchers. Don't know why he doesn't get many comments. Oh, I sent him a separate note to correct a glaring error in his post.....hope he got it and has. If not, you will realize what it is right away. Anyway, think folks should comment for him. He has done a lot for Ford and all Western fans. Well, thanks again. You may be sorry that you encouraged me, LOL! KPKEITH
Dang Gorch, just wrote you a long post and went back to see yours and this one disappeared when I came back. Is there any way to keep the other on the same page? Anyway, researching for a book I am writing and trying to get credit for stunt folks and character actors who never received it properly while alive. No good for them, but it will be for their families!
Frank is sometimes hard to find, but his size helps. Once you find out what he is wearing, you can usually find him in more places. Of course, Terry is huge and has had his white hair for a LONG time. So, if I find him, I search for Frank. Usually, at some time, they end up standing together, as they did at the door in The Searchers when Pat Wayne appeared for the first time. They got a kick out of him as did Ward and Duke as they helped to raise him.
I read that, once, Duke told Pat if he couldn't ride a horse better than he was, he wouldn't let him play in any westerns. Some of the stunt men got together and gave him lessons....I know Terry and Frank had to be in there but haven't found proof yet. Kind of like Yakima, Harey Carey, Sr. and some of the other stuntmen teaching Duke when he was a kid. Did you pay close attention to his work when shoeing the horses and making the shoes in Hondo. Have you ever seen a farrier, (blacksmith) work or done any of your own? I had a forge and used to make lots of my AMM equipment. Boy, Duke got the details right down to holding one hand with a hammer against the outside of the hoof when hammering....I was surprised at that. But I HAD read that the guys who taught him didn't just teach him to ride. Shoot, in the Cowboys, he even told Mr. Nightlinger, (Roscoe Lee Brown), first off that he was getting down off the wagon improperly. He said it would work, but that isn't the way a cowboy would do it. So Roscoe asked him to show him how. Duke did, and Roscoe did it that way throughout the film. Got off track there, sorry! I tend to be a bit verbose as I live alone and work in my shop alone, LOL. I will probably have to have someone good to severely "trim down" my book.
As for Roberson's book, I hope to get it and a lot of others when I can afford them. I especially want Dobe's, but it is very expensive even used and in bad shape! I DID hear that Bad Chuck's book was full of great stories. Think I should get his first? I need someone who has read them all to tell me which will have the most of what I am looking for. Does it have a lot of backlot stuff and explain how the stunt guys had to prepare, etc.? I knew that Roberson and Terry were really good friends. I saw somewhere on here someone asking how Good and Bad got their names and believe a wrong answer was given. Probably was corrected....I am still having trouble looking up stuff like that on here. Anyway, it was Pappy Ford who started it. Because Bad was such a troublemaker and womanizer, and Good was rather shy. Speaking of shy, did yall find the place in Horse Soldiers where Fred Kennedy died? If not, I will tell you. Phew, sorry again for my verbosity. Have a good one, KPKEITH......do it that way to keep from being confused with Ethan!
Hi Hondo,
Detail comes from a many hours of observation and knowledge of the "bit"
players. Frank was one of the best horsemen ever, though due to his diminutive size, didn't usually get the BIG players double. And, even I missed Frank's being outside in the Searchers until today after 100s of viewings....your eyes are always taken to the action! Terry also was an excellent horseman as can be seen in quite a few Wagon Train episodes....once, he did the "walk" down the "SIX UP" pulling a stagecoach driven by Ward who had dropped the reins after being shot. If you ever see Wagon Train, look for the episode "The Jonas Murdock Story" with Noah Berry, Jr. After watching their prolonged fight scene, (Terry had no double, LOL), you will see a very definite knife fighting style of Terry's. Then, go watch Hondo again. Watch Wayne fight Silva and tell me what you see. Also, notice, Frank is a bit actor in this one, but he is also the one shot off the rock by Duke!
Yes, Pappy Ford LOVED to use his stunt men in the actual movie....too bad it wasn't the day for CREDITING them, LOL. Frank and Terry probably did some horse falls and drags also....maybe why I didn't see them in the Rangers other than at the house.? Well,got my profile pic up,I think. Now, IS THERE ANY WAY TO FIND NEW POSTS except by going to the top an clicking on them and then going all through the movie to find them? Thanks, KP KEITH
I am new, and I didn't read back through all the pages, but after over a hundred times watching The Searchers, sometimes with Peter Bogdonovich's commentary, I found a great many more places where Terry Wilson and Frank McGrath were seen. First, as I believe was said before, at the beginning of the dance, Terry was the second in the line, (Roberson was the first). Frank can be seen along the wall in various places. Also, in the "wedding prep room", Good and Bad Chuck are in the forefront with Ward. In the back are Ken Curtis, (to be groom), I believe, John Qualen, (Laurie's father), Frank McGrath in scene back left, and Terry Wilson in scene right. They all went out and were in the wedding party behind Ward.
When everyone went outside for the "fisticuffs", Frank went Screen left with most of the Rangers and Terry right to stand with Duke and Roberson. After a brief interlude in the fight, it began again against the left wall. Frank and the violin player were knocked down and in danger of being injured by the fight. Roberson helped Frank up, (pretty positive this is accurate but done by numerous "still shots" by that wonderful DVD scene stopper, LOL!). Positive that Terry bodily picked up the violin player by his belt and shirt and moved him horizontally and at least three feet off the ground out of danger. Terry Wilson was tremendously strong as I noticed in multitudes of watching the first four year episodes of Wagon Train. Then when the boys were tuckered out, Frank and about 4 Rangers, including Ward and Roberson, picked up Ken Curtis.....Roberson then helped him stay up. Marty was left lying in the dirt whereas just Terry slipped his hands under Marty's arms and hauled him to his feet. Both fighters were "limp as dish rags", but Terry continued holding Marty up.
After everyone left and only a few were in the house, Frank was sitting at the back wall and Terry at the door. By the time Terry was holding the door open for young Pat Wayne, Frank was by his side....his favorite place, LOL. When Ward is talking with Pat Wayne, you can see Frank and Terry behind his shoulder. They also were putting on their guns as were the rest of the Rangers. Last but not least that I saw was Frank,(as a Union Corporal and the bugler that came back with Pat Wayne before the charge. You could see him throughout that and also saw him jump a post on horseback. Then, he was behind Ward and next to Pat Wayne while Ward's rear was being patched up. Of course, I am sure you know that Cliff Lyons played Colonel Greenhill who rode up when Ward was getting his pants back on. Can't miss that voice of his! He hated to do dialogue because of it, but Ford usually gave him some.
