Posts from ethanedwards in thread „The Sons of Katie Elder (1965)“

    Hi sun526,

    I know what you mean, as these days,
    there is so much information available!!
    I include as much info, as I can,
    so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

    Bills, work on Katie Elder,
    is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

    Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
    and your interesting replies,


    Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 03:52 PM
    Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.


    This is from my initial post:-


    Jan 20 2006, 11:35 PM

    * The real Katie Elder was the wife of Doc Holliday, one of the gunfighters at the OK Corral


    Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
    reminded, me to link, sun526,
    to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
    follow the links below,


    Duke Stories- Page 48

    Katie Elder

    Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate

    Mary Katherine Haroney

    Further to Kevins excellent review,
    please find below, some more information,
    in what I also regard as one Duke's finer movies.
    His part was highly creditable, and considering his
    physical condition at the time, he acted well.
    Rating 8/10



    Photo with the courtesy of lasbugas

    Information from IMDb

    Plot Summary
    The Elder boys return to Clearwater, Texas for their Mother's funeral.
    John the eldest is a well known gunfighter and trouble follows him wherever he goes.
    The boys try to get back their ranch from the towns gunsmith who won it from their father
    in a card game with which he was shortly murdered there after
    but not before getting through the troubles that come with the Elders name.
    Summary written by Christopher D. Ryan

    Full Cast
    John Wayne .... John Elder
    Dean Martin .... Tom Elder
    Martha Hyer .... Mary Gordon
    Michael Anderson Jr. .... Bud Elder
    Earl Holliman .... Matt Elder
    Jeremy Slate .... Deputy Ben Latta
    James Gregory .... Morgan Hastings
    Paul Fix .... Sheriff Billy Wilson
    George Kennedy .... Curley
    Dennis Hopper .... Dave Hastings
    Sheldon Allman .... Judge Harry Evers
    John Litel .... Minister
    John Doucette .... Henry Hyselman (undertaker)
    James Westerfield .... Venner (banker)
    Rhys Williams .... Charlie Striker
    John Qualen .... Charlie Biller
    Rodolfo Acosta .... Bondie Adams
    Strother Martin .... Jeb Ross
    Percy Helton .... Peevey (storekeeper)
    Karl Swenson .... Doc Isdell (bartender)
    Glen Anderson
    Paul Whitson
    Jerry Gatlin .... Amboy (uncredited)
    Harvey Grant .... Jeb (uncredited)
    Loren Janes .... Ned Reese (uncredited)
    Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... Burr Sandeman (uncredited)
    Chuck Roberson .... Townsman (uncredited)
    Ralph Volkie .... Bit part (uncredited)
    Jack Williams .... Andy Sharp (uncredited)
    Henry Wills .... Gus Dolly (uncredited)
    Joe Yrigoyen .... Buck Mason (uncredited)

    Bill Babcock .... stunts (uncredited)
    Jerry Gatlin .... stunts (uncredited)
    Chuck Hayward .... stunts (uncredited)
    Loren Janes .... stunts (uncredited)
    Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... stunts (uncredited)
    Chuck Roberson .... stunts (uncredited)
    Jack Williams .... stunts (uncredited)
    Henry Wills .... stunts (uncredited)
    Joe Yrigoyen .... stunts (uncredited)

    Other crew
    Johnny Cash .... singer (uncredited)
    'Chema' Hernandez .... head wrangler: Mexico (uncredited)

    Writing Credits
    Talbot Jennings (story)
    William H. Wright (screenplay) and
    Allan Weiss (screenplay) and
    Harry Essex (screenplay)

    Paul Nathan .... associate producer
    Hal B. Wallis .... producer
    Joseph H. Hazen .... executive producer (uncredited)

    Original Music
    Elmer Bernstein

    Lucien Ballard (director of photography)

    This picture marked the return of John Wayne to work after having a cancerous lung removed just four months earlier. He insisted on doing all his own stunts to show the public that the illness hadn't slowed him down.

    Michael Anderson Jr. replaced Tommy Kirk at very short notice.

    Despite this being a big-budget movie with a large cast, Karl Swenson was utilized to play two parts. He played "Doc Isdell" and also the bartender in the scene where the Dean Martin character auctioned his eye. The bartender part actually had more lines of dialogue.

    John Wayne, aged 57, was 36 years older than Michael Anderson Jr., who played his younger brother Bud.

    Filming was due to begin in September 1964, but had to be delayed until January 1965 after John Wayne was diagnosed with lung cancer.

    According to her tombstone, Katie Elder was 64 when she died. Her eldest son is played by 57-year-old John Wayne.

    When John Wayne is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne, who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.

    In western history, there is a famous Katie Elder: "Big Nose" Kate Elder, a prostitute and girlfriend of legendary gunfighter John "Doc" Holliday.

    The hearse featured at the funeral of Katie Elder currently resides in front of the Haunted Mansion at Walt Disney World.

    John Wayne allegedly had Tommy Kirk fired after learning the young actor was gay.

    The story was originally set to be filmed in 1956, starring Alan Ladd and directed by John Sturges.

    Tommy Kirk is quoted as saying he was fired from this production for a drug bust. He was at a party that was raided for marijuana and a picture of Tommy in handcuffs made the paper. Even Tommy never said his release had anything to do with his being gay.

    This film premiered on ABC television the same night as the infamous "Heidi" incident on NBC.

    Remade in a modern setting as Four Brothers (2005).

    * Continuity: John Elder fires 14 shots from a six-shooter without reloading.

    * Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the gun battle between the Elder Brothers and Hasting's henchman at the bridge, there aren't enough sounds to match the puffs of smoke from the guns.

    * Continuity: When Tom and Bud are shackled together, the shackles are placed on Tom's left leg and Bud's right leg, as seen when they try to walk away. In subsequent shots, the shackles are on Bud's left leg and Tom's right.

    * Continuity: When the Elder boys are in town and decide to go to look at their old ranch, Tom has a scruffy beard. When they ride to the ranch and have a run in with the deputy, Tom is now clean shaven. They all ride back into town. When they reach town, Tom has his scruffy beard again.

    * Revealing mistakes: During the gunfight between John Elder and Morgan Hastings in the gun shop at the end of the movie John looks up from behind the counter and Morgan fires a round at him. You see a glow on the counter where the bullet strikes the counter before the bullet gets there. This is where the small charge is that simulates the bullet strike.

    * Continuity: John Elder arrives in town for the first time and goes directly to the sheriff's office. As he reaches for the front door to enter his jacket is hung up behind the handle of his holstered pistol, but when he comes through the door his jacket is draped over the gun.

    * Revealing mistakes: If you slow motion the sequence where John Elder (Wayne) draws his pistol on the sheriff in the graveyard, you can see that there are two guns, one in his holster, and another in his hand, done (not very well) in an effort to make him look fast on the draw.

    * Factual errors: When Bud says he is going with John and that they'll be famous like the Daltons, John replies that the Daltons were dead having been hung. Three of the Dalton brothers, Gratton "Grat" Dalton, Robert Rennick "Bob" Dalton, and Emmett "Em" Dalton all participated in a famous attempted two bank robbery in Coffeeville, KS on Oct. 5, 1892. Grat and Bob, along with two gang members, were gunned down and killed by town's people. Emmett, although shot some 22 times, survived. He went to prison until 1907. He died in Hollywood, CA July 13, 1937. An older brother, Frank, a US Deputy Marshal, was killed in the line of duty on Nov. 27, 1887. The Dalton's criminal career lasted just over four years. The photo taken of the four killed in Coffeeville is one of the most famous photos showing the eventual end of those who flout the law.

    * Revealing mistakes: The man who John Wayne hits in the face with a stick is obviously not George Kennedy.

    * Crew or equipment visible: When Ben Latta leaps forward to catch the revolver thrown by John Elder, the cable that snatches him backwards (after being shot by Morgan Hastings), can just be seen trailing behind him.

    * Continuity: When he is seen watching the funeral, the position of John Elder's hands change between the long shot (hanging by his side) and the close shot (his left on his hip, his right on his gun). A rock visible behind him in the long shot disappears as well.

    * Continuity: When the Elders get on the Bridge, you can clearly see that the water has a strong current. Yet when Tom and Bud jump in to get more guns the water is like a mirror.

    * Continuity: SPOILER: When Curley is shot there is no wound visible. A few scenes later he can be seen in the bottom right corner of the screen on the ground with a bullet wound above his eye.

    Memorable Quotes

    Filming Locations
    Casa Blanca, Durango, Mexico
    Chupaderos, Durango, Mexico
    Churubusco Studios, Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico
    Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, Durango, Colorado, USA
    Durango, Mexico
    El Saltito, Durango, Mexico
    Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico