Posts from Danny Wilde in thread „Duke's Deleted Scenes and Missing Footage“

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Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 05:13 PM
A correction on my part. The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, as I said earlier, but in PAL that would be 2:15:16:20. I just checked using the WFT Timecode calculator. Ignore the 20 frames at the end, although technically this is two-thirds of a second. So your UK DVD is the full version and has PAL speed-up.

As for the variances in Angel and the Badman, one minute is too much. I have various copies of the film, including the somewhat official version from the Hal Roach library, and the times don't vary by more than 10 seconds. But such minor differences are probably caused by varying reel transitions. The minute difference you mention could be an encoding issue, though.

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Thanks a lot for your detailed reactions! I am glad that the Region 2 disc is the full version of Rio Bravo.

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Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 03:08 PM
An "official Chinese" Region 0 DVD from Warner Bros. is a misnomer. It might look official but it's probably not the real McCoy. Regardless, for this discussion the main thing is that the Chinese DVD has the complete print.

PAL speed-up will always be consistent so 3 minutes in 45 minutes is too much. 45m:00s with PAL speed-up is equivalent to 46m:26s in NTSC.

Do the credits start at 0:00:00 on both DVDs? The test you did is worthless unless the index times are compensated for any offset at the start. You need to eliminate the offset variable before such a test can be deemed valid. But by the sounds of it, the offset looks to be about 1.5 minutes which doesn't make sense -- it seems too much for any introductory heralds or notices.

The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, and doesn't include any extraneous material (i.e. pure film with a few seconds of black, silent video). If the official UK DVD is uncut then that index time should be equivalent to 2:16:04 (assuming PAL speed-up is present and there's no extraneous material).

If your official UK DVD is 2:16:04 then it can be assumed the film is uncut. Mind you, it could be coincidence that the PAL to NTSC times just happen to correlate perfectly (or within a few seconds).

If I had the UK DVD myself I could confirm the presence of PAL speed-up in a few minutes. But since I don't, of course, we'll have to narrow things down by looking at the index offsets (if any) of both the Chinese and UK DVDs and their actual index times.

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The running time of the Region 0 disc (NTSC) is 2:20:36 and of the Region 2 disc (PAL) 2:15:17. Both start exactly at zero seconds. I played both discs on a Phillips DVD player and I can watch both discs alternatively because I have two cart cables attached to my TV.
I've been through the two versions of the movie and haven't found any missing scenes so speed up could be the cause of this strange difference in time.

I've got the USA release of Angel and the Badman (Laser Light version with introduction by Tony Curtis) and a Region 2 version of this movie and they differ about 1 minutes (and excluding the missing intro "Republic Pictures presents" that's not on the Region 2 disc). Can speed up differ that much between a 100 minute movie and a 140 minute movie?

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Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 3 2006, 07:29 PM
Hello, Danny

I don't think Warner would release a Region 0 DVD. The studios fought for region coding so to me it sounds like the official Region 0 DVD you cited is actually DVD-/+R. Regardless, Rio Bravo is 141 minutes in film and NTSC time just like the DVD you have; the other DVD you have is 136 minutes. Let's investigate....

You say the first 45 minutes of the film had about 3 minutes cut, but are you basing this on obvious cuts or just comparing the two DVDs and their index times on your player?

The UK DVD of Rio Bravo is 136 minutes so there can only be two reasons why it's not 141 minutes: the film either has PAL speed-up (plays 4% faster) or it was cut. To determine which of these two variables will require watching the film with intimate knowledge of all the scenes, or doing sync tests using another DVD to check for PAL speed-up. An easier way to confirm PAL speed-up, although not conclusive, is to take the PAL running time and use a timecode calculator to determine NTSC time. In this case the UK DVD is 135m:13s (according to the BBFC) which translates to 140m:51s in NTSC; the Region 1 DVD runs exactly that time (give or take one or two seconds).

So it's either an incredible coincidence or the UK DVD is cut. But without analyzing the Region 2 DVD firsthand, I would says it's the same film as the Region 1 DVD -- it's just being played 4% faster.

Regardless of the initial UK video release, the 136-minute DVD most likey has PAL speed-up.

RoughRider
John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

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Thanks very much for your detailed answer. Sorry but I didn't spot it earlier.

I didn't know that PAL speed up was 4%! That could make up for the difference in time, assuming that the speed up is not linear. I have an "official Chinese" Region 0 version of Rio Bravo from the early years of DVD, I stopped the picture at 48 minutes and then used a different DVD Player to check the Region 2 Warner release. The same picture appeared at 45 minute, so 3 minutes were already lost in the first 45 minutes running time of the movie. That would mean the total movie would speed up 9 to 10 minutes in total if the speed up was linear (the same speed up of 4% during the total movie).

But as you mentioned although I've seen the movie maybe 12 to 15 times already I haven't compared the two versions scene by scene, I've just done an index time comparison.

Thanks for the information about the earlier UK VHS release and the reactions about the other movies from other visitors (Alamo, McQ, Big Trail). The DVD releases should have included the 'missing scenes' in unrestored version in any way. Just like they included the unremastered featurette on the DVD of McQ these things are what make DVD the most interesting medium above VHS.

I doubt whether the 2 Disc Searchers release will include any deleted scenes according to the news on DVD Times:

Disc 1:
Newly remastered and restored from original VistaVision film elements
Introduction by Patrick Wayne (John’s son)
Commentary by Director Peter Bogdanovich (The Last Picture Show, What’s Up, Doc?)
Theatrical trailer

Disc 2:
The Searchers: An Appreciation
A Turning of the Earth: John Ford, John Wayne and The Searchers
Behind the Cameras:
Meet Jeffrey Hunter
Monument Valley
Meet Natalie Wood
Setting Up Production

The Searchers: Ultimate Collector’s Edition which includes a Two-Disc Special Edition DVD with extensive all-new bonus features, plus a full color 36-page press book, a 36-page reproduction of the original Dell comic book, filmmaker memos and correspondence, several behind-the-scenes photos and a mail-in theatrical poster.

For the complete news about all DVD's in this collection see:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=60701