Posts from Elly in thread „WHEN did JW Meet FORD?“

Hi Keith

Thanks so much for this confirmation.

If I was writing a book I would certainly use JW words for how and when he met Ford.

This was probably the most important relationship of JW life - far outlasting any of his 3 marriages,

I have no doubt whatsoever that although JW may not have correctly recalled his early film career before Ford, he would have never forgotten how and when he met Ford.

That is not to say that Ford had not already seen JW on the set of Great K&A train robbery but that they actually met on set of Mother Machree.

I have now gone full circle with this!!!

thanks

hi Keith

thanks for copying it and as you say does not say where or when but interesting just the same.

And thanks Bill!

Thank you all so much for taking the time to give me your input.

It was just a question that occured to me and has temporarily distracted me from my main task right now.

I have weighed it all up and am prepared to go with the simplest explaination for now in that JW was mistaken. I say for now as I hope in the course of enquiries I am making and my main task we may get to know more.

My main task given the Careful please discovery, is to list ALL possible films 1925 - 1931 JW could have worked on. THIS I HAVE DONE and it is posted on this board.

I have included All films by these Directors that were filmed on the Fox lot: Walsh, Borzage, Ford, Hawks,

I have included Taurog (who directed Hamilton films which were not filmed at Fox but during the same period did direct films without Hamilton that were filmed at Fox.

I have included all Hamilton films of the period (as far as I can ascertain to date) none of which were filmed on the fox lot.

What Price glory? is on the list as it qualifies for being of the right period, directed by Walsh (assisted by Ford) and it was filmed at Fox.

I have included any and all of the above from January 1925 and it runs to 8 pages.

Obviously as JW was picking up work from other studios during this period I should have just looked at all FILMS regardless of who was directing, where they were filmed and who was the production company.

HOWEVER, I do not have enough years left in my lifetime to source and view what would be an enormous list.

So that is why my list is as it is and I am starting with what IMHO are those films most likely to be associated with JW.

Then I wanted to find and view as many of these films from my list as I can to confirm whether or not JW was in them.

As I had to hand a few poor quality prints of Hamilton shorts and the Iron Horse - and as I was side tracked by the question of when JW met Ford I looked at the Iron Horse first. It was included in my list after all as a possible JW film.

Even though I posted the screen captures from the iron horse of POSSIBLE sightings of JW, given the date of the premiere and therefore the date of filming and the fact that such an important film as this was never mentioned by JW or Ford I have to conclude this is "NOT PROVEN"

So this is where I am at right now and I have a marathon ahead of me.

I will keep you posted as and when anything turns up after all I would like this board to be "Where you heard it first!"

Thanks again for all of your help which is always much appreciated.

Hi Bob

See my reply to Neil below. I too think JW met Ford at Fox in 1926 but I think Ford spotted him probably whilst JW was working on the Great K&A train robbery.

Both of the references Neil quoted actually say JW was working on a lot and one goes on to say Ford then hired him to prop Mother Machree.

What we know to date is that the only film JW made at FOX before Mother Machree is The great K&A train robbery.

As far as I have been able to establish Hamilton shorts were NOT made at Fox other than these:

1917
Damaged, No Goods
1917
Roaring Lions and Wedding Bells
1918
The Son of a Hun
1918
Mongrels
1918
Roaring Lions on the Midnight Express
1918
A Tight Squeeze
1918
A Waiter's Wasted Life
1918
Hungry Lions in a Hospital
1919 Feb
His Musical Sneeze


And after this they were made at facilities hired from the poverty row studios. I am working on trying to pinpoint this more accurately.

Ford's first film at Fox was Just pals released November 1920.

I like your theory but I think it is more likely that JW's memory suffered from the length of time passed and one or two slugs of tequila LOL

After all he said himself he could not remember all of the films he had been in.

And althought I said we could all be mistaken about it being JW in careful please I would still bet my shirt on it being him!

Quote from RoughRider

Elly,
If John Ford asked Ham Hamilton to give Morrison bit parts, perhaps something was lost with time and the recollections were distorted. John Wayne remembered it that way but maybe -- since Ford was an avid USC fan and a friend of the coach -- Ford put word out to the USC team via the coach, Howard Jones, to visit Hamilton for work. In other words, the advice was not specific to Morrison but to the team in general.
Wayne even said, "Ham Hamilton was the director of those films.", yet that wasn't true. This illustrates how time can distort the facts.
There's also the chance that Morrison doesn't even appear in Careful Please, and that we are all mistaken by someone who resembles him.

Hello Neil
Thank you so much for these references I have the books so can look up the page numbers.

The more I look into this the more I come back to Ford and JW meeting whilst JW was working at Fox on the great K&A train robbery. (Tom Mix). Directed by Lewis Seiler (Production commenced May 1926)

I am in the process of reviewing the Iron Horse Directed by John Ford and released October 1925. I am very sceptical because the premiere was actually August 1924 and I cannot believe that if JW worked on this film that neither he nor Ford ever mentioned it.

Of course there are a few more films Directed by Ford before Mother Machree and I will also review those. (as well as more Hamilton films)

Often, I find I am doing things to DISPROVE something rather than prove it. For me that is equally as satisfying given that I want the facts and not the supposition.

AND

JW being mistaken about Ford asking Hamilton to give him bit parts. As you rightly point out JW was mistaken about Hamilton being a Director so he could also have been mistaken about Ford being the one who asked Hamilton to give him bit parts. Also JW was picking up work with other studios before he met Ford so its not hard to leave Ford out of the work JW did with Hamilton.

I have been digging around today trying to find out when Ford met Hamilton and although Hamilton did work on the Fox lot it was 1917-1919 BEFORE Ford started at Fox in 1921. I cannot link the two professionally but that is not to say that socially they were not linked.

I can however link Hamilton to Tom Mix as they were on the Fox lot at the same time! Just to throw a spanner in the already full tool box LOL

AND

Yes, as sad as that would be, there is the chance that we are all mistaken about JW in Careful please.

Quote from ethanedwards

Joe,
I have moved your post here
as it may be important to thread

Thank you for this. if only JW had said on what film or the location!

I think it is also important to gather as many quotes together to compare them and see if we can connect the dots so to speak.

JW said Tom Mix gave him a job which is often quoted as his start in the movies but JW never said it his FIRST job.

In light of the discovery of JW in Careful please released February 1926 (Lloyd Hamilton comedy short)

and JW said "Ford asked Hamilton to give him bit parts"

it is reasonablee to assume either

JW was incorrect

or

JW met Ford before February 1926.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE

Can you tell of ANY mention of JW & FORD meeting that you know of.

If it is in a book please can you tell me the exact text, book title and page number.

If it from a website please can you tell me the address.

THANK YOU SO MUCH