about Tiomkin repeating himself: I know you once said you felt it was a sign of him beginning to get lazy. I don't know. Of course, these composer never knew that one day scholars would compare every single work. At that time, film music only seldom was sold on records at all. Anyway, in the case of Tiomkin, it rather strikes me like a handwriting which I recognize instantly, like a signature. It reminds me of the Chagall exhibition I had the chance to see in Vienna. That artist, it seemed to me, always painted the same picture in variations - always trying to get right the painting he always envisioned. The same is true for Dali - his melting watch isn't just in a single painting - he came back to it again and again. So if I'm listening to Tiomkin and recognize a tune from Blowing Wild in Rio Bravo (which is really a throw-away-moment, just a background piece for the Saloon) I don't think it's lazy, I think it's an artist revisting a former work and re-doing it.
there are two versions, the so-called book-version, the originally intended version by Hawks (which is today the version generally released) and a shorter version which Hawks cut himself as well, using Walter Brennan's voice over instead of the diary dissolves. The difference is seven and a half minutes. But I wouldn't call that just a short version. Because it's dramatically different, it's a version all for itself. As I pointed out - and that's why I started this topic - there were two soundtracks as well. Similar in general, but different nevertheless. My original question was if somebody knows where to get Tiomkin's second version.
Myself, I'd like to go with author Must who wrote "Howard Hawks Storyteller": "If you haven't seen the book-version, you haven't seen Red River". In that book, the analyzis of Red River runs some dozen pages, including how the two different versions came about (lenght problems with United Artists and the legal threat by Howard Hughes). Try to get that one, it's a great read.
Falc, compare the "Book"-version with the Director's cut, you'll see what I mean. It's just exactly the showdown and the "nicking of the ears" (in this case Clift's) that caused the law suit because it was so similar to The Outlaw, and you'll find the most severe cuts in this scene. Which is also, as I mentioned, a different soundtrack because of the cutting. Wayne helped Hawks in the cutting room.
But the book version was also some other scenes short, like a short talk between Clift and Beery, the riding down the hill towards the indians, and of course, every time you see the diary there's a different dissolve in the other version.
If you compare the two different versions of Red River -
the originally intended Director's Cut which ran only outside the US -
and the so called "Book Version" for which Hawks had to settle because he had to cut his version -
you'll also find to slightly different soundtrack versions.
Of course, when Hawks had to cut his masterpiece due to legal actions taken by Howard Hughes, Tiomkin had to go back to the studio to conduct a new track as well. The differences are very subtle most of the time but very obvious in the final confrontation of Dunson/Matt where the most severe cuts had been made. Compare for instance the final shot of Dunson/Matt sitting on the ground.
I believe the one soundtrack released on CD is the Book Version. I haven't been able to find the different one. Anybody knows?
BTW, if you listen closely to the different Alamo-version you'll find that Dimitri had to work twice here again! Wherever Wayne had to make cuts, you'll hear that Tiomkin had to make those cuts work and alter the music accordingly. He was a very busy Russian, that Dimitri.
About that 4 disc set of "ALAMO: DIMITRI TIOMKIN: The Essential Film Music Collection" we talked about earlier:
The one thing you cannot find on any other disc or LP, to my knowledge, is the first-time recording of the most stirring numbers of THE WAR WAGON.
While these 4 CDs are really packed with the best Tiomkin has to offer in any genre, The War Wagon is really the only track that's entirely new. Naming the set THE ALAMO isn't quite right because it offers no track that you haven't heard previously on Alamo LPs.
Yet if you're not familiar with Tiomkin and don't have most of his music already, this is a compilation you should get.
Listen to samples here:
In addition there are these CDs:
Bear Family Records also produced FROM ALAMO TO EL DORADO
includes many originally recorded songs, even including the Spanish version of Glen Gampell singing True Grit
The most recent release would probably be THE GREEN BERETS, by Silver Age Classics, very good recording, includes the original recording of the title song
THE COMANCHEROS, limited edition of 3000, with the full soundtrack, by SILVER SAGE CLASSICS
HOW THE WEST WAS WON, the full recording including the songs, CBS
The new recording of THE ALAMO, by Columbia, the first full recording, uses the film soundtrack for "lost" pieces, so there is also dialogue on it. Includes many previously unreleased tracks from the Director's Cut.
THE WESTERN FILM WORLD OF DIMITRI TIOMKIN, selected recordings from High Noon, Giant, Red River, Duel in the Sun, Night Passage, and Rio Bravo (the main theme - without singing, and the Love-theme which aren't recorded anywhere else, I guess), by Unicorn-Kanchana
THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY, complete recording, rare, this was not for public sale, promotional copy by GEMA, but sometimes, in a store with good selection
AND ON THE LP (you just can't kill those things)
CIRCUS WORLD, has rare artwork on cover, without Wayne
for THE ALAMO, there were 3 LPs. Next to the usual one with Tiomkin's recording, there was "REMEMBER THE ALAMO", by Terry Gilkyson and the Easy Riders - has a couple of tracks which aren't on the Tiomkin-recording. THE ALAMO, by Tex Beneke. These two are valuable. Then there are the singles sung by Avalon.
STAGECOACH, two record Set, has the full soundtrack with dialogue.
The original soundtrack of TRUE GRIT, with Glen Campbell's vocals, is, interesting enough, conducted by Bernstein, but it sounds like a modernized version of his own composing, Sixties-Style.
RIO GRANDE, the full soundtrack
MUSICHE DA CELEBRI FILM DI JOHN WAYNE, very nice recording with great cover
ERINNERUNGEN AN JOHN WAYNE
101 STRINGS PRESENTS A TRIBUTE TO JOHN WAYNE
concentrates on the folk songs, like Red River Valley, Streets of Laredo and so on
ISLAND IN THE SKY - the original soundtrack would be very valuable. The was a re-release with Island on A-side and The Song of Bernadette on the other. The thing that makes this recording a must for Wayne-fans: He tells the whole film over the music.
THE UNDEFEATED (on B-side is How the West Was Won)
EL DORADO the full recording, arranged by Nelson Riddle, valuable
THE HORSE SOLDIERS, rare. The companion-piece-LP CONSTANCE TOWERS SINGS TO THE HORSE SOLDIERS is even harder to get.
SANDS OF IWO JIMA, together with John Ford's THE SUN SHINES BRIGHT
JOHN WAYNE STARRING IN STAGECOACH is the recording of Wayne appearing on the radio version. The B-Side has Randolph Scott in his radio version of Stagecoach (also with Claire Trevor!). Interesting to compare.
THE LONGEST DAY, selected soundbites of music and dialogue (Japan Import)
I've never seen an original soundtrack of that film, just a single, with Mitch Millers conducting of the March and Song of the film's end
CAST A GIANT SHADOW, the full recording, conducted by Bernstein
THE MUSIC OF REPUBLIC has Wayne on cover and selected soundtracks of B-westerns on it, like The Three Mesquiteers Suite
THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD, full recording
Now that they put AMERICA WHY I LOVE HER on CD, prices have come down for the LP. Mint condition always sold for over 100$. These were so hard to get!
Hope they release a full recording of Rio Bravo pretty soon!