Posts from ethanedwards in thread „The Big Trail (1930)“

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Great underrated and underestimated movie at the time of release.
    A box office flop but at least introduced us to Duke Wayne as we know him.


    Fantastic scenes of the wagons on the move, and the spectacular backdrops
    of the hazardous trek through mountains and rivers.


    Very dated now of course and it is amusing, to see the big fella dashing and scampering
    around with a squeaky voice!!


    Hammy theatrical stage acting on the big screen, at its best, typical of the era.


    Watch carefully Ward Bond as at times, he appears to lip sync everyone else's parts


    It's a great film.

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Quote from ShortGrub


    Ward Bond wasn't credited for his character in the movie, I guess that was a common thing in early movie releases. The Pete Morrison listed is he related to Duke?


    That's right Jeff, in fact in some scenes
    Ward can be seen mouthing everyone elses words, without realising.


    It is unlikely Pete Morrison was related to Duke,
    not that we know of anyway!

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Thanks Jim, for finding these posts.
    And as you say it does have the unfortunate effect
    of bumping the filmography/synopsis,
    several pages into the thread,
    which obviously is illogical, for the good of the movie review.


    I attempted to do this when compiling the Movie Reviews,
    and found this a major problem.
    There are endless earlier threads,several about the same movie,
    with bits and pieces, here and there.
    Attempting to merge them, was a logistic headache,
    so I decided, that the compilation of the Movie Reviews,
    should be the new starting point,
    and anything before, left to be.


    In most cases, as I have done here, I copied
    the earlier posts into the thread,
    therefore still having all the posts under one roof.
    In one Movie,
    The Alamo
    you may have noticed,
    I asked Jay, if I could edit in the filmography/synopsis,
    into his initial thread, and that worked well!


    Quote

    old january 31st, 2004
    jdw



    hello everyone! I'm new to the board here at jwayne.com but have been a huge duke fan my whole life. I would like to know if anybody knows of any plans of a cleaner, better, newer version of "the big trail" to be released? Twentieth century fox certainly didn't do it justice. This was one of the first widescreen movies to be filmed and yet they released it in full frame format. Besides that, the original film ran somewhere around 145 min, so why is the dvd release only 108 min long? Finally, and this is the least of them, there are no extras on the dvd. An old classic like this deserves much better. If any body knows anything about future plans for this film, i would certainly be interested. Thankyou.


    Quote

    old january 31st, 2004
    general sterling price
    0

    the big trail is simply a story of hard luck. This film is the chicago cubs and boston red sox of jw films. Its a great show, but under a curse. It was released at the time of the stock market crash, and was a box office failure. It contributed to a false notion that no one wanted westerns, and the genre all but died until stagecoach a decade later. It also killed the career of the leading lady in the film, and sent wayne back to the poverty row b studios where he wouldn't make his escape until stagecoach. All that for a film that really is pretty good. Then when it was "rediscovered" the sound track was damaged, and so part of it is missing, and then when the dvd was released, they didn't do anything special for it. Go figure. I really like the film.


    Gsp




    Quote

    old february 5th, 2004
    saddletramp



    hello there jdw; .....nice to meet you, as to the big trail being edited it seems to be a common thing on dvd's. Searching on e-bay for some films can be a problem. I usually e-mail the seller for the running time of the video if it isn't listed on their page. I have bought a couple dvd's that were edited versions and was very dissapointed. No bodys fault but mine because i didn't do my research. The imb is a good place for reference to the running times on movies. I find that vhs usually are the full length features but they should still be looked into if you are not sure. One thing i also find now is that some of the new stuff is in color now instead of b+w. I may get flack from the b+w purists but i do like the color versions a little better. Keep the posts coming jdw and watch the "duke" with a friend....saddletramp....


    Quote

    old february 5th, 2004
    robbie



    quote:
    Originally posted by saddletramp@feb 5 2004, 05:59 pm
    hello there jdw; .....nice to meet you, as to the big trail being edited it seems to be a common thing on dvd's. Searching on e-bay for some films can be a problem. I usually e-mail the seller for the running time of the video if it isn't listed on their page. I have bought a couple dvd's that were edited versions and was very dissapointed. No bodys fault but mine because i didn't do my research. The imb is a good place for reference to the running times on movies. I find that vhs usually are the full length features but they should still be looked into if you are not sure. One thing i also find now is that some of the new stuff is in color now instead of b+w. I may get flack from the b+w purists but i do like the color versions a little better. Keep the posts coming jdw and watch the "duke" with a friend....saddletramp..

    ..


    Quote

    february 6th 2004
    saddletramp



    hi robbie; .....i get some of the running times off the internet movie database. How close they are is something i don't know. I think most of their info is close. Another trick i use is e-bay. Find two different sellers, one with a vhs and one with a dvd and compare the running times. Some times a quick e-mail to a seller will get you the info you need or at least the info they have. I recently bought the hurricane express on dvd only to find it was edited to 78 min. I then bought one on vhs and it is 227 min. Quite a bit of editing! It seems that it is usually the dvd's that are edited. I don't know if it is for quality or what. Vhs are usually fairly grainy on the real old stuff but if i can't get the whole thing i don't want it. I don't think i am the only one who has suffered this deception. The three musketeers is another one that i have seen edited on dvd. It should run about 210 minutes, give or take a couple min. Shadow of the eagle is another at 218 min. These are all 12 part serials. And beware the young duke series . These are 3x56min. Westerns cut down to 69 min. And if you see the high and mighty or island in the sky in dvd it is a scam. I have seen one e-bay seller trying to sluff this off. He won't answer my e-mails when question him so i think he is a crook. Ask questions when buying. If you can't get them answered to your satisfaction then move on to some one who will.....saddletramp.....



    Quote

    old february 6th, 2004
    saddletramp



    hello hondo duke wayne;.... I do believe some of these films are edited to fit in a 2 hour time slot for tv. I recently purchased big jake and there is a scene that i had never saw on tv. Before. It was when they were picking buckshot out patrick's backside after the shootout with the texas rangers and the kidnappers. They just have to have room for advertising. For those who have satelite or cable tv. Maybe they run full length,i don't know.....saddletramp..

    ..







    Quote

    old february 22nd, 2004
    itdo


    have watched the dvd and compared to the 1990 fox-video release. It's the same length, the same version (the fox pal video declares running time approx. 116 min. There's another difference about lenghts: Pal and the us format, ntsc - spell: Never twice the same color - run at different speed).


    So i wanted to let you know we don't get cheated by the dvd version. It's still the same one.


  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Duke's Movie Locations- The Big Trail


    Buttercup Dunes, Imperial County, California, USA


    Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, USA


    Grand Teton Pass, Wyoming, USA


    Hurricane Bluffs, Zion National Park, Springdale, Utah, USA


    Imperial County, California, USA


    Jackson Hole, Wyoming, USA


    Moisie, Montana, USA


    Oregon, USA


    Sacramento River, California, USA


    Sacramento, California, USA


    Sequoia National Park - 47050 Generals Highway, Three Rivers, California, USA


    St. George, Utah, USA


    Yuma, Arizona, USA

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Hi RoughRider,

    OK, well, it does seem totally confusing,
    and If I hadn't carried out a physical check,
    it would be even more so.

    It looks like all the packaging has changed,
    and bear in mind, I bought my copy,
    when it was first re-released, a few years back!!

    Here is the only thumbnail I could find,
    but this is the same cover.


    [ATTACH]951]

    The Front cover shows, a portrait type picture,
    headed by THE BIG TRAIL.
    under the picture is CBS FOX logo,
    and 'ALL TIME GREATS'
    (they also issued, Rio Lobo, Big Jake, The Undefeated,
    The Comancheros, North to Alaska, The Barbarian and the Geisha,
    at the same time)
    _______________________________________________________
    The spine shows, the same logo,
    followed by' JOHN WAYNE COLLECTION'

    THE BIG TRAIL

    HI-FI VHS
    CBS FOX VIDEO

    1362.
    _______________________________________________________________
    The back cover has the usual blurb, and 3 stills.
    with these references.

    Black and White
    Running time:- approx 116 minutes.

    Copyright. 1930
    Renewed:- 1957.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    On the VHS label is printed,
    Copyright 1990,( When I bought it)
    _______________________________________________________________________
    I believe that the

    The Big Trail- The John Wayne Film Society


    still has this in stock, click on the link above,
    although the cover is different.
    It might be a good idea to EMail,
    Patrick and David.

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Hi RoughRider,


    The VHS version I have, which is a genuine
    CBS/ FOX release, has a run-time of 116 minutes.
    The are a few trailers at the beggining,
    but they are not included in this time.


    It's interesting to note


    The Complete Films of John Wayne


    states a run time of 125 minutes!!

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Previous discussion:-
    The Big Trail


    Thought it would be a good idea to transfer all the previous comments, across to,
    this, new Forum.

    Quote

    The Ringo Kid*
    post Dec 5 2005, 10:13 PM
    This sounds like a great idea.


    Though I have not watched The Big Trail in several years, I do remember liking it and thought it was great to see a really young Duke at the helm. :)


    Quote

    SXViper
    post Dec 6 2005, 02:49 AM
    It has been along time for me as well since I have seen this movie. I must confess it is not one of my favorites. And to be honest it was not a well acted movie by Duke in my opinion. I realize that this was his first major starring role, and it shows, but he did learn allot from the filming of this movie and it shows througout the rest of his career. The one notable thing about the movie was some of the technical aspects, like being 1 of the 1st widescreen movies ever filmed and some of the stunts that were performed were quit outstanding for the era. Overall, I would give this movie 2.5 stars out of 5.*




    Quote

    ZACK613
    post Dec 6 2005, 07:46 PM
    Duke's acting is solid in the Movie. I found it well made and well acted over all. As to being as good as the IRON HORSE...I don't know about that. I don't think BIG TRAIL was any were as many powerful images as IRON HORSE has. The acting is pretty much on par but Walsh is no John Ford. :cowboy:*







    Quote

    Hondo Duke Lane
    post Dec 7 2005, 03:05 AM
    Good Point, E.J.


    I do have that book and I read it January 1999. You can see that it's been almost 7 years. I guess I better get it out and read it again. I wrote in the book when I read it, so that's how I know when.


    Cheers B)




    Quote

    Senta*
    post Dec 7 2005, 11:12 AM
    Hi all,
    The discussion of making The Big Trail sounds very interesting. For a pity I didn't read these books, but it is hard to belive that Duke was drank the most of time. It was not like him during the work. With what his illness was connected?
    Regards,
    Senta






    Quote

    kilo 6*
    post Dec 27 2005, 05:32 AM
    Hello All
    We went out of town for Christmas and I am behind on my reading , so forgive me for a late entry on The Big Trail. ( We don't do electric anything, much when on vacation ) I read that John Wayne impressed Raoul Walsh by working on a set all day and then helping his buddies break down and pack up then unload equipment. Duke was working on the production side most of the time and on this occasion after a long hot day of desert shooting ( working on the cast side of things) Duke watched several fellow production side, workers, who had been ( like him ) assigned as background performers/ extras, for the day, go home leaving the crew they regularly worked along side, shorthanded for cleanup. Duke stayed on, unpaid, to help his chums get the job done and worked hard. Walsh saw that the man had grit and loyalty and perhaps began to consider him in a new light, or from a different ( camera?) angle. Well it may be just a nice storey but I want to think it,s true and I wont buy a pickled egg for anyone in a tavern who says different. Murray ( thanks for the new thread EE it's good to return to the board and have this as a sort of Christmas gift waiting. As I said b 4 there must be something in the Torquay water, are you sure you are not part Scottish or Irish?
    Murray :newyear: :jump:

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    The Big Trail is a 1930 lavish early widescreen movie shot on location across
    the American West starring John Wayne in his first leading role and directed by Raoul Walsh.
    The-Big-Trail-Photo.jpg
    In 2006, the United States Library of Congress deemed this film "culturally,
    historically, or aesthetically significant",
    and selected it for preservation in the National Film Registry.


    I enjoyed the film, and although it was a flop at the Box Office,
    it brought the name of John Wayne, to the big time screen.
    Raoul Walsh, giving the young John Ford prop man, a surprise leading role,
    changing Dukes name in the process!!




    It's amusing now, to see the big fella dashing and scampering
    around with a squeaky voice,
    and apart from the hammy acting, typical of the era,
    and Ward Bond, mouthing everyone elses words,
    it's a great film.


    User Review

    Quote

    Big, gritty and ... wide screen in 1930?
    14 August 2001 | by Rodger Schultz (Severna Park, MD)


    John Wayne's first starring role just blew me away. Televised letterbox style on AMC, I had to check and make sure I had the right date. Sure enough, this 1930 film was made using a 55 mm wide-screen process. Aside from that, it features some of the grittiest, most realistic footage of the trek west I've seen. Wagons, men and animals are really lowered down a cliff face by rope. Trees are chopped by burly men -- and burly women -- so the train can move another 10 feet. The Indians are not the "pretty boy" city slickers who portrayed them later; they're the real deal. A river crossing in a driving rain storm is so realistic, it has to be real (In fact, I understand that director Raoul Walsh nearly lost the entire cast during this sequence). I could smell the wet canvas. Each day is an agony. The various sub-plots are forgettable but the film as a whole is not. I can't think of another title that can beat The Big Trail in evoking a sense of living history on the trail to Oregon. Bravo.

    1RU0N52d7_mkHnWtbWKaCVohu0Tvcctm40TVhmSHSEE.jpg

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    THE BIG TRAIL

    DIRECTED BY RAOUL WALSH
    PRODUCED BY WINFIELD R. SHEEHAN
    FOX FILM CORPORATION



    p5308_v_v8_aa.jpg


    INFORMATION FROM IMDb


    Plot Summary
    Breck leads a wagon train of pioneers through Indian attack, storms, deserts,
    swollen rivers, down cliffs and so on while looking for the murder of a trapper
    and falling in love with Ruth.


    Full Cast
    John Wayne .... Breck Coleman
    Marguerite Churchill .... Ruth Cameron
    El Brendel .... Gussie
    Tully Marshall .... Zeke
    Tyrone Power Sr. .... Red Flack, wagon boss (as Tyrone Power)
    David Rollins .... Dave 'Davey' Cameron
    Frederick Burton .... Pa Bascom
    Ian Keith .... Bill Thorpe
    Charles Stevens .... Lopez
    Louise Carver .... Gussie's mother-in-law
    rest of cast listed alphabetically:
    Chief John Big Tree .... Indian (uncredited)
    Ward Bond .... Sid Bascom (uncredited)
    Nino Cochise .... Indian (uncredited)
    Iron Eyes Cody .... Indian (uncredited)
    Don Coleman .... Wrangler (uncredited)
    Emslie Emerson .... Sairey (uncredited)
    Alphonse Ethier .... Marshal (uncredited)
    Dannie Mac Grant .... (uncredited)
    Marcia Harris .... Mrs. Riggs (uncredited)
    Marilyn Harris .... Pioneer girl (uncredited)
    DeWitt Jennings .... Boat Captain Hollister (uncredited)
    Marjorie Leet .... Mildred Riggs (uncredited)
    Marion Lessing .... (uncredited)
    William V. Mong .... Wellmore, trading post owner (uncredited)
    Pete Morrison .... Wrangler (uncredited)
    Dodo Newton .... Abigail Vance (uncredited)
    Jack Padjan .... Pioneer (uncredited)
    Helen Parrish .... Honey Girl Cameron (uncredited)
    Robert Parrish .... Pioneer boy (uncredited)
    Jack Peabody .... Bill Gillis (uncredited)
    Russ Powell .... Windy Bill (uncredited)
    Frank Rainboth .... Ohio man (uncredited)
    Apache Bill Russell .... (uncredited)
    Andy Shuford .... Bit part (uncredited)
    Gertrude Van Lent .... Sister from Missouri (uncredited)
    Lucille Van Lent .... Sister from Missouri (uncredited)


    Writing Credits
    Hal G. Evarts (story)
    Raoul Walsh (story contributor) uncredited
    Marie Boyle (screenplay) (dialogue) uncredited &
    Jack Peabody (screenplay) (dialogue) uncredited
    Florence Postal (screenplay) (dialogue) uncredited


    Original Music
    R.H. Bassett (uncredited)
    Peter Brunelli (uncredited)
    Alfred Dalby (uncredited)
    Arthur Kay (uncredited)
    Jack Virgil (uncredited)


    Cinematography
    Lucien N. Andriot (photographed by) (35mm version) (as Lucien Andriot)
    Arthur Edeson


    Stunts
    Steve Clemente ... stunts (uncredited)
    Iron Eyes Cody ... stunts (uncredited)
    Jack Padjan ... stunt coordinator (uncredited) Camera and Electrical Department


    Trivia
    Gary Cooper was originally offered the role of Breck Coleman and wanted it, but he was under contract to Paramount Pictures, which refused to loan him out. The role was eventually given to John Wayne.


    This was his only talking film of Tyrone Power Sr., father of Tyrone Power. He died in 1931.


    Incredibly, five different versions of this film were shot simultaneously. (1) a 70mm version in the Grandeur process for exhibition in the biggest movie palaces; (2) a standard 35mm version for general release; (3) a 35mm alternate French language version La piste des géants (1931)' (4) a 35 mm alternate Spanish language version La gran jornada (1931), and (5) a 35 mm alternate German language version Die große Fahrt (1931). The three alternate language versions were shot with (mostly) different casts.


    Reportedly this film debuted at a running time of 158 minutes. However, this is unconfirmed as of May 2008.


    This film was shot in both the wide screen format, synonymous with "Cinemescope", as well as the standard format. Special wide screens were needed. Most theaters featured only the standard version of the film. Moviegoers at that time, the 1930s, had difficulty paying higher ticket prices to accommodate the new process. This process was soon abandoned but reappeared in 1953 with The Robe (1953), produced in Cinemescope. Television had taken some revenue away from the movie industry and the economy had improved.


    John Wayne's first movie role. Raoul Walsh was having trouble casting the movie when he saw Wayne taking furniture off a truck. Wayne worked for the studio in the prop department.


    Marion Morrison was discovered working in the part department and was cast in this film. The producers didn't like his name. Raoul Walsh (the director, who discovered him) suggested Wayne as a last name. He had recently been reading about General Anthony Wayne (Mad Anthony Wayne). The studio added John and the rest was history.


    The story is set somewhere between 1837 and 1845. The first major wave of settlers arrived on the Oregon Trail in 1843.


    According to the Nov. 12, 1930 issue of the Idaho Falls Post, this movie was once set to be titled "The Oregon Trail". The change, as stated, was made in response to the requests from nearby residents of Jackson, WY, where the bulk of the movie was filmed.


    At the beginning of filming John Wayne became ill with dysentery and lost 20 lbs.


    Goofs
    Continuity
    In the last scene where Breck and Ruth are reunited,
    Breck comes up the trail and is seen by Ruth.
    A close up of Breck shows him carrying his rifle in his right hand.
    Breck starts to run to meet Ruth.
    The shot shifts to a distant shot as we watch Ruth and Breck running to each other.
    Breck's rifle is now slung over his shoulder.


    Factual errors
    (at around 10 mins) Breck Coleman leans his rifle against the water pump,
    then leaves it there and goes into the house. Not something a 'real' frontiersman would do.
    0 of 2 found this interesting | Share this


    Revealing mistakes
    After Thorpe is killed while trying to murder Breck Coleman (John Wayne),
    Flack (Tyrone Power Sr.) talks about dismissing Breck as a guide.


    While he does this, Ward Bond (standing to the right) is clearly mouthing Flack's lines.


    Memorable Quotes


    Filming Locations
    Buttercup Dunes, Imperial County, California, USA
    Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, USA
    Grand Teton Pass, Wyoming, USA
    Hurricane Bluffs, Zion National Park, Springdale, Utah, USA
    Imperial County, California, USA
    Jackson Hole, Wyoming, USA
    Moise-National Buffalo Range, Montana, USA
    Moisie, Montana, USA
    Oregon, USA
    Sacramento River, California, USA
    Sacramento, California, USA
    Sequoia National Park - 47050 Generals Highway, Three Rivers, California, USA
    St. George, Utah, USA
    Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, USA
    Yuma, Arizona, USA
    Zion National Park, Springdale, Utah, USA