Historical Events That Must Be Filmed

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    Jackson was Lee's right hand man. It would be very difficult to get better than that. Jackson helped Lee plan many of the larger campaigns


    My Favorite Lee quote. On hearing that Jackson had lost his arm, Lee said
    "He has lost his left arm, but I have lost my right."

    hi ringo kid


    Tromp was the father of the first real naval tactics, he defeated in 1639 during the thirty years war, the second spanish armada at the downs which was send to invade to invade Holland.


    Blake was a British admiral who is also seen as the greatest British admiral after Nelson. Blake and Tromp fought each other in lots of naval engagements during the first Anglo-Dutch war. In these war Blake first introduced the ship of the line tactics and was also the reason why the Dutch lost the war. (the first anglo-dutch war is also seen as the first modern war because the war was fought entirely at sea and it was the first trade war).


    I also give some info about Michiel de Ruyter, he is dutch greatest naval hero.
    He was involved during the Dutch conquest of Brazil against the Portugese and later he fought as vice admiral in the first Anglo-Dutch war (1652-1654). In the last battle Tromp was killed and he took over command of the Dutch fleet.
    In 1658 he was victorious in the battle at the Sond during the Dutch-Swedish war and also captured the island of Funen. During the second Anglo-Dutch war (1665-1667) he won one of the greatest naval engagements ever fought the four days battle but lost the St. James day fight. The british burnt a dutch merchantfleet and wanted revenge, so they sended de Ruyter to attack London. de Ruyter broke the chains of the thames which were protecting London, burnt most of the British ships and sended 2000 zeesoldaten or mariniers (seasoldiers or Marines) on land to attack fort sheerness this action is also known as the first ambifien operation so de Ruyter is the father of the Marine corps.
    In 1672 in the dutch 'rampjaar' (year of disaster) when we were attacked on sea by the British and French fleet from the south by the French and from the east by German kingdoms. De Ruyter won on sea all the naval engagements against the allied fleet. Whit as highlight the battle at Kijkduin were he fought a twice as big fleet and still wanted to attack which the British and French didnt expect and when they saw Dutch sails at the horizon coming with de Ruyter in his shining armour on the flagship some French ships fled away. On land the war didnt go to well and Holland was for 70% taken. But after 2 year fighting with a smaller army under the lead of William III later king of England all the invading armies were driven out. In 1676 de Ruyter was send to help the Spanish at sicily against a French invasion. He was victorious in the battles at Etna and Palermo but he lost the last battle which I cant remember the name of and de Ruyter was killed.
    The french sended a escort for the body of de Ruyter with black sails and at every harbor they passed there were saluting shots fired. So de Ruyter has also earned the respect by his enemies.


    Btw. The french killed the 2 greatest admirals Nelson and de Ruyter.


    About Marshall you say he is in high command but he never fought a battle himself
    he was more political I think.


    About the qualities you named I agree with all you named except 5, ofcourse being political is important but If you look into history how many great commanders are being political. I mean de Ruyter, Nelson, Patton, Rommel and many others were not real political brains. They just fought to win, to what they were ordered.


    cya Jwfan

    Hi Mrs. McClintock and JWFan.


    Mrs. McM, nice quote. My favorite Lee quote is: "It is well that war is so terrible lest we grow too fond of it."


    JwFan, Thanks for the info on Tromp, Blake and de Ruyter. I'm going to have to do some reading on them when time permits. One thing I did learn that I did not know was Nelson being killed by the French.


    The deal on being political is because if you have allies, one must be able to cut oneself a bit short in order to placate the ally in order to win a battle, campaign and or war. Ike was a perfect commander/politician. Same goes for Marshall. Now, someone who made a great field commander but a lousy politician was Patton (need I say more? :) ). Another was Monty.


    One thing extra I will say is that I have always greatly admired tough soldiers and the Dutch certainly never lacked for good soldiers.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    hi ringo kid,


    I am not sure if Nelson was being killed by the French because the battle at Trafalgar was the British against the French and Spanish but the most of the fleet were french ships so I think he was killed by the French.


    Yes I know about Patton although he is my favorite commander of WWII that also has to do with the movie with George C. Scott I like his character.


    About dutch soldiers, Holland was great on the sea never on the land, we won the eighty years war of dutch independence against Spain not because we won from them on the battlefield but because the dutch fleet could inflict heavy damage on Spanish trade. The only great field commander we had was Prince Maurice of Orange Nassau.


    If you look back on dutch military history you can see that the dutch fought in many wars but in all the wars on land we never had great commanders. like in the spanish war of succesion dutch forces were under the command of the british commander John Churchill Marlborough also in the austrian war of succession and during the battle at Waterloo dutch forces were under the command of Wellington.


    So I am not that proud of dutch military history on land but on sea I am.


    cya Jwfan

    :cowboy: Hi JWFan, one thing I have to differ from you on is that granted Holland might not have produced many great ground commanders but, the average Dutch Soldier was as tough as they get. I know a few German veterans who told me of their experiances about fighting Dutch soldiers when they first invaded. I don't know what units they came up against but I remember two of the German vets told me that the Dutch on average were taller and heavier than the average Lanser at least in their unts.


    Best regards--C. :)

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    hi ringo kid,


    I think you are talking about the marines who defended Rotterdam It was one of the few place were we could hold off the Germans when they invaded in 1940.
    But when the marines refused to surrender the city was bombed.


    cya Jwfan

    :cowboy: Hi JWFan, might have been Dutch Marines not sure. I know little or nothing about that part of the war but do plan on reading up on soon. At either rate, i'd hated to have tangled with those soldiers.


    Though this movie is fiction, it gave a bit of understanding (at least to me) on the chaos the Dutch faced at that time. The movie is "Operation Amsterdam" w/ Peter Finch.


    BTW, what is the name of that huge Piano-like instrument that is set up and played on streets there? This instrument is on 4 wheels and is the size of a super large piano or organ?

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    hi ringo kid, stumpy


    I dont think there is much to read about the dutch involvement in WWII because the invasion of Holland only lasted for 5 days and there were only 2 major battles:
    the battle at Ypenburg dutch marines vs german paras and the battle at the Grebbeline dutch infantry equipped with WWI weapons vs german infantry.
    The reason why we were occupied so quickly was that we were attacked by surprise because Holland declared to be neutral but still we were attacked.


    My grandfather who was a farmer, told me a story about the invasion, he was working on the land and suddenly there was one big shadow and alot of noice and when he looked up he saw hundreds of paratroopers.
    Only at the airfield at Ypenburg the marines could inflict heavy casualties on German paratroopers because the dutch placed obstacles on the landing zones.


    But if we could hold them back for a couple more days we could have been helped by the British and French troops who were coming to help and then the outcome of the war could have been different.


    Also I am proud of how dutch people resisted against the German occupation, I dont know If you have seen the dutch movie Soldaat van Oranje or Soldier of Orange from Paul Verhoeven the movie gives a clear view of how the resistance was.


    My grandmother who had healthy parents and they lived in a large house did go every day to school, but every week there came less people in the class because Judish people who had to hide or were betrayed didnt show up anymore.
    I just cant imagine how that would have been.


    About the movie Operation Amsterdam I have heard of It but I have never seen it.


    And about the large piano in holland we call that a 'vleugel'.
    I dont know how they say that in English.


    Stumpy, thanks for the links.


    cya Jwfan

    Hi Stumpy/JWFan, Stumpy, thank you for the link about Oberst Werner Molders. It is true he flew in the Legion Condor in the Spanish Civil War and it is true he was only there in the capacity as a Fighter Pilot/Squadron Leader. Werner Molders definately was NOT a Nazi, and hated them. He was definately a Catholic and lived his life by the beliefs. He attended Church regularly as the war permitted.


    He was one of several Luftwaffe Pilots who was a Ritterkreuzetrager (Knights Cross Recipient--which is Germany's equal to our Medal of Honor and the U.K's Victoria Cross). Molders was one of only 27 German soldiers in WWII to be a winner of not only the Knights Cross but also the Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Other names that some might have heard that are in this group of 27 are: Erich Alfred Hartmann who had 352 aerial victories, Erich Topp, who was one of the top scoring Uboat aces of WWII and one of only 2 or 3 Kriegsmarine servicemen to win the Diamonds, and of course Adolf Ferdinand Galland, another Luftwaffe pilot who shot down over 100 aircraft.


    BTW, Erich Topp became an Admiral in the West German Navy and retired I think in the 1980s and is still alive. He currently lives peacefully in Remagen, Germany.


    Erich Hartmann (one of many) served in the West German Air force and he too retired in the 70s or 80s and as an Oberst. This Gentleman spent several years living here in the USA, and was a teacher to our fighter pilots in the 1950's and 1960's. He was a favored guest at the Air Force Academy and several AFBs here and in England.


    One thing on Erich Topp, he was in fact a member of the nazi party but when he joined the Kriegsmarine, he had to quit the party. He also is not a believer in the nazi policies but joined the party because he was forced to by his father. That reason was so Herr Topp could get a good job or it be easier for him to advance in rank. Well, the Kriegsmarine had no nazis serving in their ranks and they in fact did not support nazi beliefs.


    Sorry for my rant. When I get started on history, it's hard to quit. ;-D


    JWFan, I almost forgot, if you do get a chance to see the movie, I recommend it. It's not a great movie but is entertaining. Also, thanks for the name of that instrument, I can't think of it's name in English either :unsure:

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    hi ringo kid,


    I have a question about something entirely else, I am fond of statues of historical figures, now here in Holland there are lots of statues in Den Haag and I have visited many cities in Europe including Paris and Berlin and I guess it is something typical European to make statues of important persons but I wonder if there are many statues in the USA of important persons/


    cya JWfan

    Hi JWFan, yep, there are many statues all around the States as well. Most I have personally seen were to do with the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and both World Wars. Over the last 15-20 years there have been several added on the Korean and Vietnam Wars as well. Last time I went to San Antonio, I saw one that I think was a new WWII staute. It showed a soldier kneeling next to a fallen comrade. This one I think is located close to downtown San Antonio.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    hi ringo kid,


    could you also give me the names of the persons from who there are statues because I am quite interested in that.


    Here in Holland we have statues from:


    William of Orange (the Silent) - leader of the dutch war of independence


    Piet Heyn - first admiral of the dutch fleet and capturer of the spanish silver fleet and San Salvador


    Michiel de Ruyter - defender of the fatherland he was dutch last hope in the year of disaster (1672) he saved Holland from a English/French invasion.


    Antony van Leeuwenhoek - biologist, founder of the microscope


    Jan Huygens - inventor of the sawmill and several other things.


    William III of Orange - led dutch forces to victory in the 3 great wars of Louis XIV and invaded France


    Johan de Witt - one of the most important European political leaders of the 17th century


    Johan van Oldenbarnevelt - Dutch stadtholder and founder of the first world wide trading company the VOC.


    Prince Maurice of Orange - great field commander he was the first commander in Europe that could beat the invinsible Spanish infantry on land at Nieuwpoort and captured much ground of the Spanish in what is now is Belgium and was an example for other leaders like Gustav Adolphus.


    Desimerus Erasmus - humanist, great philosphor of 16th Century


    and some others


    cya Jwfan

    :cowboy: Hi JWFan, you name it and there's probably a statue of them.


    There are numerous statues with people like: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, U.S. Grant, Patton, Ike, Stonewall Jackson, Custer, Blacjack Pershing, JEB Stuart, Ben Franklin, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, etc etc.


    Hope this helps?

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    If I wouldnt have fear of hight I would have visited the US for sure not only for statues for famous people but also to see monument valley


    cya JWfan

    Heh heh heh, my Mother was afraid of heights. Once we were in San Antonio and wanted to have lunch in the Hemisphere Tower Restaurant. Well, it has more than one elevator that hugs the outside of the building and the side looking out is clear glass. My mother stood in the very back of the elavator while I stood leaning against the glass. :D (Joe)

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    Hi Ringo - One time we went up the "Tower of the Americas" with friends and one of them started talking so everyone could hear him about elevators having problems and getting stuck without any way of getting out and furthermore how the cables could break, causing a disaster. Needless to say, with the addition of the outer facing view, most of the people on that elevator looked very pale and shaken. Needless to say, I was trying to pretend that I didn't know him.
    Cheers - Jay B)

    Cheers - Jay:beer:
    "Not hardly!!!"

    Hi Jay, heh heh, that story reminds me of one about me being in Germany.


    I was near Lace Konstanz (The Bodensee) and I was on a bus one afternoon heading from the small Stadt of Dingelsdorf to the city of Konstanz. Well, along the route this bus stopped at 3 or 4 other little Stadts before we got to the one that you can take to go to a small island (which I never did unfortunately) and at this stop, knowing that everybody on the bus knew I was an Anerican, I sorta kept to myself unless spoken to. Well, I had been riding on that bus by that time, everyday for about a week and the Germans were already used to me by then and a few even speaking to me (or trying to in their limited English and my limited German)


    Well, at that said stop, a family of four irritating and loud people were getting on the bus. They were American tourists. There is a phrase I always disliked which is: "C'mon, were burnin' daylight" which is what the father said. I can tell that those noisy people irritated everyone else on that otherwise quiet bus.


    I was embarassed because all these people were loud and irritating and that they were American. I felt like the behavior of these representatives from my country were also having an effect on me as well. The Germans I had been getting to know on the bus kept looking at me watching for a reaction. Well, the dad came up to me speaking English and asked me what time it was. I played like I did not hear him nor understand what he said.


    The guy asked me for the time and I said in my terrible version of German: Ich bin ein kine sprechen sie Amerikanisch. They guy grabbed my wrist, raised my sleeve and looked at my watch. I was so embarassed and peeved at the same time. Well, shortly later, the bus stopped and these irritationg people left. Every German on that bus clapped their hands at my behavior.


    These three Genadagefraus got off the bus where I did. One took me by the hand and took me to a Bistro serving Teas and cakes and they bought me some. They knew the exact reason why I did not let on that I was an Ami, and it's not anything against my country but was against those who greatly embarass us by their irritating behavior in public.


    If you had been there and seen this, you would have thought the whole thing funny. I did when I later thought about it. :)

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    ringo kid you ever been or seen the fernseher tower in Berlin if you look to that tower you really get fear of hights.


    btw I might go to the US with my father this summer If I have the guts to step in the plane

    Quote

    Originally posted by JWfan@Mar 31 2005, 05:04 AM
    ringo kid you ever been or seen the fernseher tower in Berlin if you look to that tower you really get fear of hights.


    btw I might go to the US with my father this summer If I have the guts to step in the plane

    [snapback]15666[/snapback]



    JWFAN,your thoughts about boarding a plane are normal...i had them when i was younger and had to make my first flight...(about...8 yrs ago now) and in those 8 yrs ive made....well i lost count but ive made around two dozen flights....theirs nothing to it.(and they usually have a good looking stewardess! :P)


    -IHW