I like this movie. I like Hutton in it and was pleased to see him teamed up with John Wayne again. The BBC are currently repeating Hutton's TV series Ellery Queen by the way. The action scenes were well shot and I thought the atmosphere in the movie was pleasant.
Posts by Danny Wilde
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A good movie with a nice little twist in it. Good quality actors, a solid director and fine action scenes.
The movie inspired a British TV series from the mid '80s called Dempsey and Makepeace, that was quite popular in Europe and ran for 3 seasons.
Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 05:13 PM
A correction on my part. The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, as I said earlier, but in PAL that would be 2:15:16:20. I just checked using the WFT Timecode calculator. Ignore the 20 frames at the end, although technically this is two-thirds of a second. So your UK DVD is the full version and has PAL speed-up.
As for the variances in Angel and the Badman, one minute is too much. I have various copies of the film, including the somewhat official version from the Hal Roach library, and the times don't vary by more than 10 seconds. But such minor differences are probably caused by varying reel transitions. The minute difference you mention could be an encoding issue, though.
Thanks a lot for your detailed reactions! I am glad that the Region 2 disc is the full version of Rio Bravo.
Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 03:08 PM
An "official Chinese" Region 0 DVD from Warner Bros. is a misnomer. It might look official but it's probably not the real McCoy. Regardless, for this discussion the main thing is that the Chinese DVD has the complete print.
PAL speed-up will always be consistent so 3 minutes in 45 minutes is too much. 45m:00s with PAL speed-up is equivalent to 46m:26s in NTSC.
Do the credits start at 0:00:00 on both DVDs? The test you did is worthless unless the index times are compensated for any offset at the start. You need to eliminate the offset variable before such a test can be deemed valid. But by the sounds of it, the offset looks to be about 1.5 minutes which doesn't make sense -- it seems too much for any introductory heralds or notices.
The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, and doesn't include any extraneous material (i.e. pure film with a few seconds of black, silent video). If the official UK DVD is uncut then that index time should be equivalent to 2:16:04 (assuming PAL speed-up is present and there's no extraneous material).
If your official UK DVD is 2:16:04 then it can be assumed the film is uncut. Mind you, it could be coincidence that the PAL to NTSC times just happen to correlate perfectly (or within a few seconds).
If I had the UK DVD myself I could confirm the presence of PAL speed-up in a few minutes. But since I don't, of course, we'll have to narrow things down by looking at the index offsets (if any) of both the Chinese and UK DVDs and their actual index times.
The running time of the Region 0 disc (NTSC) is 2:20:36 and of the Region 2 disc (PAL) 2:15:17. Both start exactly at zero seconds. I played both discs on a Phillips DVD player and I can watch both discs alternatively because I have two cart cables attached to my TV.
I've been through the two versions of the movie and haven't found any missing scenes so speed up could be the cause of this strange difference in time.
I've got the USA release of Angel and the Badman (Laser Light version with introduction by Tony Curtis) and a Region 2 version of this movie and they differ about 1 minutes (and excluding the missing intro "Republic Pictures presents" that's not on the Region 2 disc). Can speed up differ that much between a 100 minute movie and a 140 minute movie?
Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 3 2006, 07:29 PM
I don't think Warner would release a Region 0 DVD. The studios fought for region coding so to me it sounds like the official Region 0 DVD you cited is actually DVD-/+R. Regardless, Rio Bravo is 141 minutes in film and NTSC time just like the DVD you have; the other DVD you have is 136 minutes. Let's investigate....
You say the first 45 minutes of the film had about 3 minutes cut, but are you basing this on obvious cuts or just comparing the two DVDs and their index times on your player?
The UK DVD of Rio Bravo is 136 minutes so there can only be two reasons why it's not 141 minutes: the film either has PAL speed-up (plays 4% faster) or it was cut. To determine which of these two variables will require watching the film with intimate knowledge of all the scenes, or doing sync tests using another DVD to check for PAL speed-up. An easier way to confirm PAL speed-up, although not conclusive, is to take the PAL running time and use a timecode calculator to determine NTSC time. In this case the UK DVD is 135m:13s (according to the BBFC) which translates to 140m:51s in NTSC; the Region 1 DVD runs exactly that time (give or take one or two seconds).
So it's either an incredible coincidence or the UK DVD is cut. But without analyzing the Region 2 DVD firsthand, I would says it's the same film as the Region 1 DVD -- it's just being played 4% faster.
Regardless of the initial UK video release, the 136-minute DVD most likey has PAL speed-up.
John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography
Thanks very much for your detailed answer. Sorry but I didn't spot it earlier.
I didn't know that PAL speed up was 4%! That could make up for the difference in time, assuming that the speed up is not linear. I have an "official Chinese" Region 0 version of Rio Bravo from the early years of DVD, I stopped the picture at 48 minutes and then used a different DVD Player to check the Region 2 Warner release. The same picture appeared at 45 minute, so 3 minutes were already lost in the first 45 minutes running time of the movie. That would mean the total movie would speed up 9 to 10 minutes in total if the speed up was linear (the same speed up of 4% during the total movie).
But as you mentioned although I've seen the movie maybe 12 to 15 times already I haven't compared the two versions scene by scene, I've just done an index time comparison.
Thanks for the information about the earlier UK VHS release and the reactions about the other movies from other visitors (Alamo, McQ, Big Trail). The DVD releases should have included the 'missing scenes' in unrestored version in any way. Just like they included the unremastered featurette on the DVD of McQ these things are what make DVD the most interesting medium above VHS.
Originally posted by Robbie@Dec 4 2006, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure why this was done, I'm sure its got nothing to do with unseen deleted scenes that we have not viewed before, I only have the Vhs version of Rio Bravo and I'm pretty sure its uncut and runs to about approximately 136 minutes.
According IMBD the running time of Rio Bravo is appr. 141 minutes, that's how long my Region 0 DVD version of Rio Bravo is.
According to several DVD reviews of the Region 1 release running time is 141 minutes! (see the excellent http://www.dvd-basen.dk/ for a database of reviews from all regions)
This means the "uncut" version is 141 minutes. In the first 45 minutes of the movie there already are 3 minutes cut, so I can see whether I can find out where the cuts are made. I'll post them as soon as I've done that.
I agree it's a shame that scenes that ended on the cutting floor are lost forever. The very thin DVd release of Rio Bravo doesn't do justice to this excellent movie at all.
I liked the movie as well. I think John Wayne is at his best in westerns, but I enjoyed this movie because of the flying scenes, the humour and the way it was shot (beautifull scenes and very colourfull).
Rio Bravo is one of the best westerns ever made. The story is excellent and the director keeps you on the edge of your seat for almost two and a half hours, that's a remarkable effort considering the relatively small set and on the surface simple story. The acting is superb and you can see where Clint Eastwood got his Dirty Harry lines from (John T. Chance: You want that gun, pick it up. I wish you would.)
I bought the official Region 0 DVD release of this movie in the 90s, and recently bought the Region 2 Warner DVD release of this movie, with a trailer as an extra and I stumbled across a strange thing: the European release is 2 hours and 16 minutes! While the Region 0 release was 2 hours 21 minutes just like the Region 1 Warner DVD release. The European DVD release was cut by 5 minutes! This is really a shame as they also deleted the biography notes that were on the Region 1 release. In the first 45 minutes of the movie they managed to cut about 3 minutes of the movie, does anyone know which scenes were cut?
I doubt whether the 2 Disc Searchers release will include any deleted scenes according to the news on DVD Times:
Newly remastered and restored from original VistaVision film elements
Introduction by Patrick Wayne (John’s son)
Commentary by Director Peter Bogdanovich (The Last Picture Show, What’s Up, Doc?)
The Searchers: An Appreciation
A Turning of the Earth: John Ford, John Wayne and The Searchers
Behind the Cameras:
Meet Jeffrey Hunter
Meet Natalie Wood
Setting Up Production
The Searchers: Ultimate Collector’s Edition which includes a Two-Disc Special Edition DVD with extensive all-new bonus features, plus a full color 36-page press book, a 36-page reproduction of the original Dell comic book, filmmaker memos and correspondence, several behind-the-scenes photos and a mail-in theatrical poster.
For the complete news about all DVD's in this collection see:
Originally posted by ethanedwards@Jan 23 2006, 08:31 PM
On the Cutting Room Floor
Apparently, this scene is missing!!
McQ meets a woman, at the hospital reception desk,
Diana Muldar, looks over the womans shoulder.
Duke is obviously trying to find out where is partner is,
after being shot.
However, in the final cut, Duke and Muldar, are already in the hospital room
This post is intended for the McQ topic, not this one of Brannigan.
London is my favorite city around the globe, so seeing John Wayne in the capital of England is great. There was a VideoCD released of the classic Eglish news of 1974 that had a short but nice news item about John Wayne visiting London to film this movie. The bare bones DVD release of Brannigan was certainly not in line with this enjoyable movie. The music by Dominic Frontiere is very good as well.
The British Tv series "Dempsey and Makepeace" is clearly influenced by Brannigan.
A real Howard Hawks classic. This movie is so good it could have been an hour longer in my humble opinion. It has a great feeling to it, the sets and interaction between the players is great. My favorite Howard Hawks movie is El Dorado where Hawks creates the same pleasant atmosphere but within a much smaller environment.
The scenes are great and some magnificent filming has been done. Certainly in my top 10 of John Wayne movies.
I particularly liked this movie. The length is fine because there is room to build the characters of the movie and the fire scenes are impressive. I own the Region 1 DVD that has some production notes but strangely enough the trailer that is announced on the back cover of the DVD is not included.
There was a short piece on the making of the movie in a Dutch magazine of that time that had a picture of John Wayne drving in a special terrain buggy on the set, the particular vehicle is not even in the movie. I too think Katherine Ross was good in her part, and Jim Hutton is believable as co-star.
I first saw McQ on Dutch television as a late night movie on a saturday night back in 1984. I thought it was nice to see John Wayne as a cop for a change. The action scenes were well done and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I bought the Region 1 Warner DVD release last year and it was nice to see the behind the scenes documentary included. Of course it would have been better if they had given it the "Batjac" treatment (like The High and the Mighty release on DVD) and included the information about deleted scenes, production photos, film posters etcetera, but the movie looked very fresh in the digital format!