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  • Duke's Movies- Blu-Ray/DVD Releases


    I found more recent information about the John Wayne in Color set.


    The three included films have state of the art colorization by Legend Films. Also included are the black and white originals, a policy Legend adheres to for all its product.


    Visit Legend Films to see samples of their work and much interesting reading about their digital process. The films are done to such a high resolution that they can strike 35mm prints.


    RoughRider

  • Duke's Deleted Scenes and Missing Footage


    To my knowledge the DVD of Hondo is the same film shown in theaters right down to the second -- it's either 83 or 84 minutes depending if the theater is half full or half empty.


    A minute can make a difference, though, if the running times are accurate to the second. Encode the Hondo VHS to DVD-/+R then calculate the running time and compare it to the official DVD. Even though VHS is a rather dirty analogue format, it'll still represent an accurate time for comparison to the digital DVD. If the running times vary by more than a few seconds then there could be something cut.


    As an example, the UK DVD of War of the Wildcats is 19 seconds longer than the official American VHS (the film hasn't been released on Region 1 yet). I compared both films and found the UK DVD had additional scenes which accounted for the time difference. Such minor differences reflect the varying attitudes towards censorship at the time, on both sides of the pond.


    I would tend not to trust the recollections of someone who remembers a scene from many years ago -- the human mind plays tricks, especially after such a long time. Now I'm not saying such a declaration by someone is incorrect, but it's most likely the mind playing tricks. As for a trailer showing scenes not in the original film, this isn't uncommon. Another factor of potential cuts would be if the film was viewed early in its release, before cuts were made to what would become the general release print. For instance, if you saw McQ in Los Angeles or New York on its initial engagements, you would have seen the 115-minute version which was later cut to 111 minutes.


    And how about people in the UK who watched The Big Trail VHS, which from 1990-1998 was the longer version than the one released on VHS in America. The initial American VHS (1988) was 112 minutes, soon cut to 108 minutes which is how it appears on DVD worldwide. Yet the UK VHS is 120 minutes, replaced in 1998 by the standard 108-minute version.


    As mentioned earlier, according to the book John Wayne: All American, The Alamo's premiere in San Antonio was 206 minutes. So this was probably the longest version seen by the general public. Whether this version included more narrative or music is unknown to me. By the time it premiered in Los Angeles the film was 192 minutes, which is the print found in Toronto and released in all forms of home video except DVD (which didn't exist at the time). Interestingly, the book Spectacular: The Story of Epic Films lists the running time as 213 minutes.


    I don't know what video format MGM used to archive the print found in Toronto, but it's probably not high resolution digital (not in the early 1990s). If that was the case then the studio could have easily released it to DVD and HD when they came on the scene. My guess is that it's stuck in a lower resolution digital format, perhaps not even conducive to the full glory of DVD (hopefully I'm wrong). So the Toronto print that later deteriorated from poor storage would have to be restored, then archived in high resolution digital -- ready for any future home video formats. As it stands now, the best home video source for the 192-minute version is the LaserDisc. I really wonder if MGM could release the film in all its DVD glory, or if for technical (resolution) reasons it can't be done.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • Duke's Deleted Scenes and Missing Footage


    Hello, Danny


    I don't think Warner would release a Region 0 DVD. The studios fought for region coding so to me it sounds like the official Region 0 DVD you cited is actually DVD-/+R. Regardless, Rio Bravo is 141 minutes in film and NTSC time just like the DVD you have; the other DVD you have is 136 minutes. Let's investigate....


    You say the first 45 minutes of the film had about 3 minutes cut, but are you basing this on obvious cuts or just comparing the two DVDs and their index times on your player?


    The UK DVD of Rio Bravo is 136 minutes so there can only be two reasons why it's not 141 minutes: the film either has PAL speed-up (plays 4% faster) or it was cut. To determine which of these two variables will require watching the film with intimate knowledge of all the scenes, or doing sync tests using another DVD to check for PAL speed-up. An easier way to confirm PAL speed-up, although not conclusive, is to take the PAL running time and use a timecode calculator to determine NTSC time. In this case the UK DVD is 135m:13s (according to the BBFC) which translates to 140m:51s in NTSC; the Region 1 DVD runs exactly that time (give or take one or two seconds).


    So it's either an incredible coincidence or the UK DVD is cut. But without analyzing the Region 2 DVD firsthand, I would says it's the same film as the Region 1 DVD -- it's just being played 4% faster.


    Adding to the confusion is that the initial (1986) Warner UK home video release of Rio Bravo was heavily cut. The BBFC lists the video at 125m:03s which is equivalent to 130m:15s in film and NTSC time. So if the initial UK VHS has PAL speed-up, there's about 10 minutes cut; if it doesn't have PAL speed-up, there's about 16 minutes cut. The VHS probably does have PAL speed-up, but without analyzing the tape itself I'm just guessing. But the initial UK VHS certainly was cut, perhaps reflecting the fact that the film itself was passed with cuts in 1959, but to what degree I don't know. (The book John Wayne and the Movies, generally accurate for UK running times, makes no mention of a cut UK release. So the film was probably released theatrically over there at 141 minutes, too. But again, the initial UK VHS may reflect those theatrical cuts.)


    Regardless of the initial UK video release, the 136-minute DVD most likey has PAL speed-up.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Hello, Keith and all.


    I received The Big Trail, the UK VHS listed as approximately 116 minutes. If you remember, I initially received the UK VHS listed as approximately 110 minutes (no PAL speed-up present) with a different cover--the same 108-minute print Fox distributes on DVD. But the older UK Fox VHS is the 120-minute version (compensating for PAL speed-up which is present). It's the same 120-minute version shown on the Fox Movie Channel except the VHS is full-frame. So it's 12 minutes longer than what is currently available on home video; actually almost 14 minutes longer because there's no exit music on the VHS.


    The older UK VHS is the one to get. It has the Fox catalogue number 1362; the newer, shorter Fox VHS is 1362S. Maybe the 'S' means shortened? Both versions share the same UPC number, 5013738136250, so don't use that to indentify the different prints.


    Although first released in the UK on VHS in 1990, my VHS has both a 1990 and 1996 copyright statement. The shorter VHS has a 1998 copyright, so in between that time Fox UK shortened the film. I don't know whether the longer version was ever released on VHS in NTSC. The 1993 NTSC release is listed as 110 minutes, but I don't know if something appeared before that time.


    It's always interesting to see what gets cut in a shorter version. The DVD has two minutes cut in the first 10 minutes compared to the early UK VHS, so things start getting chopped right away.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • Duke's Movies- Blu-Ray/DVD Releases

    OK, I see, Keith. So the b&w Fox/Lorber titles were released in the UK by Second Sight. And 15 of them instead of the five that were released on DVD in North America by Columbia (Sony). Although I don't care for the modifications, generally I like the print quality--I've only seen five--so I'll obtain these from the UK. Maybe the 10 other titles were released on DVD over here, but I haven't found them; but all 15 were released on VHS by Columbia. Thanks for the insight -- I didn't know Second Sight released the Fox/Lorber Lone Stars on DVD.


    As to why Rainbow Valley was excluded, I don't know for sure. It was either a rights issue or the prints in existence weren't good enough. It wasn't colorized, and I know that process requires high-quality film elements. Mind you, Texas Terror wasn't colorized either but there's a Fox/Lorber version.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • Duke's Movies- Blu-Ray/DVD Releases

    Quote

    Originally posted by ethanedwards@Nov 9 2006, 03:40 PM
    They of course, were the Second Sight series.


    What is the Second Sight series, Keith? It sounds like the British video distributor, who I'll guess had UK rights to the colorized Lone Star productions.


    I've been poking my nose into John Wayne's colorized films and come up with 36 titles (excluding the Lone Stars that were re-titled and condensed to 20 minutes). Two of the Lone Stars weren't colorized: Texas Terror and Rainbow Valley. I think a few of the 1940s films were released to television only and not available on home video. But I've confirmed that all those listed below have been colorized.


    If anyone sees an omission, let me know.


    Riders of Destiny
    Sagebrush Trail
    The Lucky Texan
    West of the Divide
    Blue Steel
    The Man from Utah
    Randy Rides Alone
    The Star Packer
    The Trail Beyond
    The Lawless Frontier
    'Neath Arizona Skies
    The Desert Trail
    The Dawn Rider
    Paradise Canyon
    Winds of the Wasteland
    Allegheny Uprising
    Dark Command
    Three Faces West
    Lady from Louisiana
    In Old California
    Flying Tigers
    A Lady Takes a Chance
    War of the Wildcats
    The Fighting Seabees
    Tall in the Saddle
    Flame of Barbary Coast
    Back to Bataan
    Dakota
    They Were Expendable
    Angel and the Badman
    Fort Apache
    Wake of the Red Witch
    The Fighting Kentuckian
    Sands of Iwo Jima
    Rio Grande
    The Longest Day



    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • Duke's Movies- Blu-Ray/DVD Releases

    Quote

    Originally posted by ZS_Maverick@Nov 3 2006, 05:34 PM
    DVD Features
    Note: This 3-Disc set includes the films STOLEN GOODS aka     BLUE STEEL (1934), GOLD STRIKE RIVER aka THE LUCKY TEXAN (1933), and AN INNOCENT MAN aka SAGEBRUSH TRAIL (1934).


    It sounds like these are the same films colorized in 1990 by Color Systems Technology and released on home video under their original titles, later with different titles under The Young Duke banner. The titles here are different, though: Blue Steel was Bandits of the Badlands; The Lucky Texan was Cowboy G-Man; and Sagebrush Trail was The Fugitive.


    It's too bad Wayne's Lone Star westerns ended up in the public domain: If the copyrights were renewed we would have beautiful, unmodified prints available on DVD. Instead, they're hacked (editing, music, colorization) so that the new versions can be re-copyrighted.


    Anyone who wants to see how nice these prints can look should check out the 2-disc Columbia Pictures DVD collection called Riding the Range Vols. 1 and 2. There's new music and editing, though, which I deplore. But the print quality is lovely (some better than others), sourced from either the original or early re-issue film elements owned by NTA. The DVDs also benefit from high-quality encoding. But had the films been released unmodified, bootleg copies probably would have flooded the public domain market.


    I wonder if the colorized versions by CST used the same prints as the earlier black-and-whites released by Columbia? I'll poke my ever-curious nose into the answer.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • In Old Oklahoma (1944)

    I see the UK DVD of In Old Oklahoma has some scenes not in the American VHS issued by Republic. For example, early in the film Martha Scott says to Wayne, "Only hired girls put on their gloves in public." That scene got snipped in the US version, including a short scene even earlier where a bit player says, "I'm gonna get me a gal with yeller [yellow] hair." A short scene with Wayne was also cut.


    I'm shocked the Brits would allow such foul language and not tone down things with cuts like the Americans.


    Seriously, I was curious why the running times between the two versions vary slightly (20 seconds or so), and now I see why. I wonder if the pending RC1 release of the film will include the same cuts....


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)


    You must have a multi-system VHS player that plays both PAL and NTSC. In Canada and the US such players aren't common. As for RC1 DVD players, most will convert PAL to NTSC, with some models better than others. I think the rest of the world is better equipped for both formats, including TVs that can sync to both correctly.


    Speed is a factor when it comes to PAL versus NTSC, but not always. As another example, I just bought the UK DVD of The Green Berets because it's anamorphic and the RC1 isn't. It's 136 minutes but with PAL compensation it's 142 minutes -- just like the NTSC version. They're the same film right to the second.


    But with PAL it's difficult to notice the 4% speed-up, so to verify things I synced the RC1 (NTSC) with the RC2 (PAL) and watched sections of the film. Both versions of The Green Berets stayed in sync when the RC2 was played in WinDVD with 'PAL TruSpeed' turned on; turned off the film played 4% too fast (visually and audibly confirmed because I had something to compare).


    My region-free DVD player, the one connected to my TV, will therefore play the RC2 disc 4% faster as it gets converted to NTSC. But other RC2 PAL discs don't have speed-up, so one can't make a blanket statement about PAL.


    To determine if PAL speed-up is present, you can generally tell if a running time is 4% shorter. For instance, if you know your favorite film is 100 minutes and the PAL video you have is 96 minutes, it most likely has PAL speed-up. The film could be cut, but because it's your favorite film, you know it isn't. So for my PAL videos I always do sync tests in conjunction with a timecode calculator, which is much simpler than having intimate knowledge of a film and all its scenes.


    So, yes, PAL and NTSC can be a question of speed. It's just that generally you won't notice it. But it's important when listing correct running times for foreign versions of a film. The early UK VHS of The Big Trail is a good example, which based on what was said here is the longer version. But does the 116-minute running time reflect PAL speed-up or not? To me that's important.


    And speaking of that UK VHS, I received mine yesterday. Unfortunately it's the newer release with a catalogue number of 1362S instead of just 1362; the running time on the case says 110 minutes. So even without converting the tape to NTSC, I know this is probably the standard 108-minute version currently available on DVD in the UK and US. (The UK DVD is 103 minutes but has PAL speed-up.) My assumption also means that the VHS probably doesn't have PAL speed-up.


    But I've tracked down a copy with the 1362 catalogue number, the one that says CBS/Fox and has a different cover (the one ethanedwards posted). The copy I have is dated 1998, but the early version was released on UK home video in 1990 -- hopefully this is the one I'll get.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)


    A PAL VHS won't play at all in a standard NTSC player, so the video formats are entirely different. A PAL VHS should play back at 25fps, though. That is, the running time will be shorter. But then again, I thought this of DVD too. But being digital, a film can be encoded in such a way that it doesn't matter what television standard is used: the DVD player's hardware reads the digital data and converts it to whatever display is being used.


    As mentioned, some DVDs don't have PAL speed-up. Technically I don't fully understand this fact. My assumption is that they are encoded in a different way, perhaps progressively where each frame in a film is a single digital frame and not interlaced (two fields to create one frame). The player's hardware takes this data and then outputs it to whatever standard is being used (PAL or NTSC). So for some DVDs (at least the way I see it), the only thing that makes them PAL is the physical resolution.


    But perhaps some VHSes don't have PAL speed-up either. I imagine there are different ways a film can get telecined to VHS. I also have the UK VHS of Reunion in France on order. The BBFC lists the UK video as 99m:50s, which in NTSC would be 103m:59s (the length of the actual uncut film). The offical American VHS and TCM print runs 98m:46s.


    It should be noted that the early NTSC VHS of The Big Trail has the same catalogue number as the UK VHS (#1362), but it's listed over here as 110 minutes instead of 116. (Fox lists the DVD on their online store as 110 minutes, too, but it's actually 108.) If they have the same Fox catalogue number, they should be exactly the same film.


    In any case, I'll get to the bottom of this mystery once the UK VHS is in my hands and converted to an NTSC VHS, then to DVD-R (the same with Reunion in France). For The Big Trail I'll do sync tests with the official DVD release. Such tests can be confirmed using the WinDVD player which has a feature called 'PAL TruSpeed'. Mind you, if the UK version is either 8 minutes longer (no PAL speed-up) or 13-14 minutes longer (compensating for PAL speed-up), the difference will be obvious because of additional scenes not on the DVD.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Alamo (1960)


    The book probably based the 192-minute running time on the actual film (i.e. excluding the music), which I believe is how it premiered in Los Angeles.


    The BBFC (Board of British Film Censors) certified the 1993 UK video release at 202m:37s, but I thought this included 'extras' because the film is generally listed at 192-193 minutes. The BBFC's running time closely matches the TCM print, and might include the United Artists intro. TCM prints generally match those that have been released on home video.


    It's hard to pin a film down to the second because of the variables involved, but the times are close enough for me to believe the VHS, LaserDisc and TCM prints are the same. Another factor is that my hardware captures at 30.00fps, so on DVD-R the times are slightly shorter because things get encoded at 29.97fps. In the case of The Alamo, it reduced the film's length by about 12 seconds.


    There was also a 172-minute version of The Alamo released on home video. I don't have any details about it, but just guessing it must be the same film as the 162-minute DVD except with 10 minutes of additional music (like in the director's cut).


    Video boxes typically list 2.35:1 for letterboxed films -- it's probably a mistake but one never knows. The DVD is 2.20:1 but the VHS/LaserDisc may have been matted (I doubt it though). On a standard TV it's hard to judge the aspect ratio because of overscanning, which cuts off all sides by about 10% -- it depends on the TV. I saw a 1.78:1 DVD on an old TV where the overscan was so bad the film displayed full-screen (and yes, the DVD player was configured correctly).


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Alamo (1960)

    About the running time of The Alamo.


    TCM Canada had the director's cut on Wednesday, and I recorded to my hard drive. From start to finish, excluding the brief United Artists intro, the film runs 202m:14s. This time, of course, includes the Overture, Entr'Acte and Exit music. Without such music, the film runs 191m:40s. The aspect ratio is 2.08:1.


    I imagine this would be the same print on the special VHS/LD, which is commonly listed at 202 minutes. So that time doesn't include any 'extras'.


    As mentioned earlier, The Alamo was certified by the BBFC in 1960 at 192m:29s. The book John Wayne: American states the film premiered in San Antonio, Texas, at 206 minutes.


    RoughRider
    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Thanks for VHS details.


    Amazon UK had two copies of The Big Trail available from affiliate sellers, so I bought one. It's listed under the same VHS cover you show but with a 1998 release date. There's always the chance what I get won't reflect the cover shown, in which case it might not be the 116-minute version that you verified. It might be the cover shown on The John Wayne Film Society, which I assume is the newer VHS release.


    Since the UK DVD is 103 minutes (PAL), I imagine Fox would have released it to VHS as well. The back of the UK DVD says 'Approx 103 Minutes' and I've verified it to be the same print as the US DVD (right to the second). But it's obvious that Fox UK released a longer version on home video in 1990. Unless, of course, you were mistaken in your time calculation of the film from start to finish, and the BBFC's video running time of 116m:35s included trailers.


    I should note that PAL running times can get confusing. Some DVDs are encoded in such a way that there's no 4% PAL speedup. For example, the UK DVD of Lady from Louisiana plays back at exactly the same speed as NTSC (film time). The box says approximately 83 minutes and that's what it is in real time. So for some PAL videos, taking the running time and multiplying by 1.04 to get real film time isn't applicable. I think this would apply only to DVD which is purely digital as opposed to analog VHS. So in the case of Lady from Louisiana, if I play the DVD on my computer with WinDVD's 'PAL TruSpeed' feature turned on, the film plays 4% too fast. I verified this by syncing the UK DVD with a DVD-R culled from the American VHS -- they're exactly the same running time. The DVD is just digital data, and I guess it's up to the player's decoder to output either a PAL or NTSC signal.


    Another example is the UK DVD of The Magnificent Showman which syncs perfectly with the NTSC DVD I have under the title Circus World, all without compensating for PAL speedup. Other UK DVDs, though, have to be sped up to see real film time (like The Big Trail). This understanding of PAL is important because it can alter the true running time of a film. But as mentioned, I don't think this applies to VHS although I could be wrong. A VHS running 116m:35s in PAL should be equivalent to 121m:26s in NTSC.


    I'll post an update once I have the UK VHS converted to NTSC and do sync tests to verify the running time.


    RoughRider


    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    An update on the UK video version of The Big Trail.


    I ordered the RC2 DVD from Amazon UK which lists the running time as 116 minutes, just like the VHS version mentioned earlier in this thread -- the one confirmed to be 116 in PAL (or 121 in NTSC film time). I was disappointed to discover that the RC2 DVD has exactly the same running time as the RC1 version (108 minutes NTSC).


    It seems, then, that the UK VHS is the one running 116 minutes in PAL and subsequent video releases on DVD used the shorter version. But the DVD Amazon UK sent me has the newer cover, the one saying Studio Classics at the top. The previous UK DVD, released in 2003, has a different cover and is listed at 116 minutes, too (probably a mistake by Amazon just like the newer version).


    It looks like I'll have to order the UK VHS of the film and convert it to NTSC then DVD-R, and see for myself. If ethanedwards hadn't confirmed the VHS's running time, I would have assumed it was a mistake in the Amazon listing just like the DVD. Actually I would still be curious because the VHS was passed for UK certification in 1990 at 116m:35s.


    ethanedward: what date and catalogue number (or other identifiers) appears on your UK VHS? There's always the chance the one I get will have a different cover and shorter running time, although Amazon UK lists only one VHS version, from CBS/Fox dated 1998. Does yours have the same cover as listed on Amazon UK? If the VHS was passed for certification in 1990, there may have been more than one version subsequently released. If so, it would have to be a shorter version because a longer one would require re-certification.


    RoughRider

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    Quote

    Originally posted by RoughRider@Oct 9 2006, 09:17 AM
    This is a rare case where a RC2 DVD of Wayne's is longer than the RC1 equivalent. I think a few of his 1940's Republic films (e.g. Dakota) are a few minutes longer than their American counterparts, too. But this is something I'm looking into and need to confirm.


    I'll quote myself here... never mind about some of the Republic films from the 1940's being longer in the UK. For some reason, obviously confusion, Amazon UK lists a number of VHS running times that reflect the actual duration in the theatre (or NTSC)--not the time it should be for a PAL video. It gets confusing when they mix PAL and NTSC times.


    RoughRider

  • The Big Trail (1930)


    Hello, ethanedwards


    OK, no exit music then.


    Yeah, the end credits these days are longer than some of Wayne's B-movies!


    I suspect the longer UK version of The Big Trail is because of language. The shorter RC1 DVD also has a Spanish soundtrack whereas the RC2 doesn't. But why Fox didn't add a Spanish soundtrack to the longer version and release it over here on RC1 is beyond me.


    This is a rare case where a RC2 DVD of Wayne's is longer than the RC1 equivalent. I think a few of his 1940's Republic films (e.g. Dakota) are a few minutes longer than their American counterparts, too. But this is something I'm looking into and need to confirm.


    RoughRider


    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography

  • The Big Trail (1930)


    Thanks, ethanedwards!


    I checked out Amazon UK and see that the UK DVD of The Big Trail is the same as the UK VHS, 116 minutes.


    So based on what you said of the VHS (the trailers not being part of the 116-minute PAL running time), the UK video release of The Big Trail is 13 minutes longer in real film time than the American video release, and about the same time as the Fox Movie Channel print.


    For the sake of comparison:


    - Fox RC1 DVD/VHS: 1.33:1; 108m:08s including exit music (equivalent to 103m:48s in PAL)
    - Fox Movie Channel print: 2.00:1; 119m:55s (equivalent to 115m:07s in PAL)
    - Fox RC2 DVD/VHS: 1.33:1; 116m:35s (equivalent to 121m:26s in NTSC)


    Can someone with the UK DVD of The Big Trail confirm the running time minus extraneous modern-day intros? In other words, is it 116m:35s of pure film? (This sounds like a silly question but I'm picky to a fault.) Also, does the UK DVD/VHS have exit music?


    RoughRider


    John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography
    http://www.vanc.igs.net/~roughley/john_way...ilmography.html

  • The Big Trail (1930)


    Hello, and thanks for responding.


    So the PAL VHS (116 minutes) is equivalent to 121 minutes. That's about the same time as the Fox Movie Channel widescreen print shown in the US. Is the UK VHS in widescreen? Can you get the exact running time of the pure film with no extras? That's a little tricky if it's a VHS, of course, but perhaps you tranferred it to DVD which allows viewing total time to the second. The UK video was certified for release at 116m:35s in PAL, which is about 121m:30s in NTSC. But there could be extra stuff that added a few minutes.


    Although The Big Trail was in different incarnations, it was certified for a 1930 UK release at 109m:54s, pretty close to the DVD's running time. John Wayne at the Movies says the UK release was 99 minutes, so it was obviously cut further.


    Many sources say the film was initially 158 minutes for the widescreen version and 125 minutes for the standard version. It was copyrighted, though, at 13,000 feet which is about 144 minutes.


    The NTSC VHS is the full-frame 108-minute version like the DVD. So I'm most curious about the different UK VHS release, especially if it was widescreen and how long the pure film was.


    RoughRider

  • The Big Trail (1930)

    I would like to know about the UK VHS version of The Big Trail released by Fox. It's listed on Amazon UK at 116 minutes (PAL) which is 121 minutes NTSC. The DVD runs runs 108 minutes (NTSC). Is the UK VHS the same widescreen print that runs on the Fox Movie Channel? Even if it isn't, is the UK video version really 121 minutes (in NTSC and film time) or does it include extras?


    Keith responded in another topic that the UK VHS box does indeed say 116 minutes, and then I was directed to this topic. But is this pure film or does it include extras? Keith?


    Any info would be appreciated. Nothing would surprise me, especially since, for instance, the UK DVD of Without Reservations (1946) is six minutes longer than the heavily cut US print (VHS, LaserDisc and TCM library print; there's no RC1 DVD).


    RoughRider

  • The Alamo (1960)

    Could someone please clairify the director's cut of The Alamo that was released on VHS some years ago. Is it 192, 202 or 211 minutes? I know for sure there's a 192-minute version (the print found in Toronto), which was certified in England at 192m:29s in 1960. But there seems to be ambiguous information about the length of the film when it was released to video. Perhaps 192 minutes didn't include the overture, intermission, and exit music? Or are people including the VHS 'extras' in the running time?


    Also there was a 172-minute version released on VHS: did this include all the music or was it pure film like the 162-minute DVD version?


    I would also like to know about the UK VHS version of The Big Trail released by Fox. It's listed on Amazon UK at 116 minutes (PAL) which is 121 minutes NTSC. The DVD runs runs 108 minutes (NTSC). Is the UK VHS the same widescreen print that runs on the Fox Movie Channel? Even if it isn't, is the UK video version really 121 minutes or does it include extras?


    Anyone who could provide definitive answers would be much appreciated.


    RoughRider