The New Alamo Picture

Greeting Itdo and Arthurarnell,

Itdo: Thanks for that info on him. Its a shame his H-wood career did not work out, I did like him in The Alamo. I had not known he was in The Green Berets? nor in a band either. Do you know what part he played in The Green Berets? Also speaking of knowing people in that movie, I have a friend whos uncle was in the part of one of the men being trained and you can see them jogging by The Duke and the other fellow he was shooting Skeet with. Unfortunately that person was killed in combat in Vietnam about a year or so later.

Arthur: I am a fan of other Alamo movies like: Last Man From The Alamo with Glen Ford, The Last Command and of course Man Of Conquest. I thought all were good versions though each seemed to focus on things differently. Last Man From The Alamo really had little to do with the battle but was still enjoyable to watch.

Its been many years since I last saw Man of Conquest but I do remember liking it. I last saw it played on WTBS about 20 years ago so I remember little about it other than it held my interest. Also, there was James Michners (SP?) Texas. It was based on the times slightly before and during and slightly after the fall of The Alamo. I found that very few things in it were really accurate but, I did find that watching it as a work of fiction that it was relatively enjoyable to watch. Still, my favorite versions of The Alamo were of course The Dukes version as well as Disneys version with Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen.

As far as any of these films really being historically accurate, well they all had some accurate and not so accurate things in them all. Apart from what reviews I have seen on TV movie critic and entertainment shows, I just can't bring myself to watch someones views that were based on a false testament (de la Penas) and I heard that there was not much focus on Crockett, Bowie and Travis.

Im not afraid to watch it if I do so as a work of fiction but I can't take the new movie seriously because of the false documents the movie was based on. Now as for the historical accuracy of The Alamos buildings etc, that I can appreciate in the movie.

Hi Roland and Ringo

I watched the Disney 'Davy Crockett King of the Wild Frontier' and 'Davy Crockett and the River Pirates' when I was about eleven. Of course as a Flagship picture bringing forth a television series. Disney swung his full force behind it. We had the colouring books the comics, we never bought the coonskin cap because that looked naff. But everyone else in our street had one. My mum had a fox fur stoll and she adapted that to make a cap for my younger brother, and after she finished it looked better than Fess Parkers.

Of course Disney's version tended as you say to concentrate on the Indian Wars because Crockett won that one, his spell in Washington could be classed as a score draw but he came out of that with credit, and the Alamo sequence glossed over because the hero gets to end up dead, and even Disney couldn't alter that.

But in England at that time any type of adventure film that came out of Hollywood was leaped on, and kids and coonskin caps were easy pickings for the advertiers.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Itdo, Arthur,

Itdo, well, at least their special effects sound good. I will do just that and look at the Dodge City scene. I was planning on watching The Green berets again soon but not until I finish watching Season 1 Campaign 1 of the TV series: COMBAT. I am about 75% through wiht that series having only one more disk to watch with four episodes.

Arthur, I agree with you. Disney was a bit cheesy on set designes for their Alamo sequence but all is forgiven because I love the Davy Crockett theme song.

Well, I just saw this Disney Alamo movie 3 weeks ago, and I was wondering why they executed Davy crockett, that was not the way he died in Dukes Alamo, so for historical facts I got confused.
I understand by some of you that they found him surrounded by dead mexican soldiers, now I do not believe Hollywood very much when it comes to historical facts. In one of my historical books, the text goes like this:
The body of the legendary frontiersman, Colonel Davy Crockett, who had arrived in Texas only a couple of weeks earlier, was found mutilated, surrounded by his companions from Tennessee.

Santa Ana was seized on april 21, and sigened documents that acknowledged the independence of Texas.
Do any of you know if these documents can be seen today, and if, where.
You guys and girls from Texas should know.
Have visited Texas ones and plans to visit again.
By the way, my over all view of this Disney Alamo was, that the special effects were good, Jason Patric as Jim Bowie was not the best choice, I would have liked Dennis Quaid instead. A little disappointing, but watchable.
Larry

Hi Larry, you cannot believe hollywood for really any historical accuracies except that the Japanese bombed Pearle Harbor early Sunday morning December 7th 1941. Other than that, unless it is a true to life Biography (Like Patton) and (We Were Soldiers) do not, I repeat, DO NOT trust hollywood to give you much in the way of accurate historical facts.

It makes me want to "go around the bend" on how history is taught these days and what passes for history these days. A good friend of mine who is a High School teacher in the state of Michegan, is always at odds with the other history teachers because their version of teaching history is to simply put in a dvd or tape of some war movie, and play it for the kids. Luckily my friend has computers in his class and he MAKES his kids look up for more info, what he teaches. The only time he will play a movie or video in his class, is just for their enjoyment.

It really amazes me. Not too long ago, I asked this high school student where was Pearl Harbor? and her reply was: "I did not know Pearl Harbor was a place? I thought it was a rock n roll group."

Quote

Originally posted by The Ringo Kid@Nov 7 2004, 03:28 PM
Hi Larry, you cannot believe hollywood for really any historical accuracies except that the Japanese bombed Pearle Harbor early Sunday morning December 7th 1941. Other than that, unless it is a true to life Biography (Like Patton) and (We Were Soldiers) do not, I repeat, DO NOT trust hollywood to give you much in the way of accurate historical facts.

It makes me want to "go around the bend" on how history is taught these days and what passes for history these days. A good friend of mine who is a High School teacher in the state of Michegan, is always at odds with the other history teachers because their version of teaching history is to simply put in a dvd or tape of some war movie, and play it for the kids. Luckily my friend has computers in his class and he MAKES his kids look up for more info, what he teaches. The only time he will play a movie or video in his class, is just for their enjoyment.

It really amazes me. Not too long ago, I asked this high school student where was Pearl Harbor? and her reply was: "I did not know Pearl Harbor was a place? I thought it was a rock n roll group."

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You've hit on one of the main reasons home schooling has become so popular. Because the public schools have become a disaster.

Wow . . . so many things to which to respond!

First, I agree with you, Ringo and Stumpy, regarding not trusting Hollywood or our school systems for telling the truth. Recently, I picked up a history book at a local school and was browsing through it. Imagine my surprise when it was discussing how the ships of the United Nations were streaming across the Pacific to defeat the Japanese. Now I know we had help from the Brits and Aussies, but the United Nations wasn't even in existence until after WWII (BTW, we have been homeschooling since 1986, all six kids (that's the Mrs. after a busy day)!).

Second, we've got a whole pile of coonskin caps around here, as well as a couple of skunk skin caps! I loved Davy Crockett when I was a kid, and naturally bought two VHS tapes years ago of Davy Crockett. Having nearly worn them to a frazzle, I recently bought a two-DVD set at Costco, of Davy Crockett and the River Pirates and Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier ($12.99 for the set ).

And last, but not least, yesterday at the Dean Smith Celebrity Rodeo, I met Rudy Robbins and was able to get him to autograph two photos of him and the Duke from The Alamo movie. I hope to scan them eventually and get them up so you can see them. I also bought a book he co-authored, How to Yodel "The Cowboy Way" with DVD instructions (you interested, Roland? I hear they do some fancy yodeling up in those Swiss Alps ). I'm thinking of becoming a singing cowboy myself .

Seriously, he lives in Bandera, Texas, and seems to be enjoying life. I told him the story of our itdo (Roland) joining the message board, and how my wife and I thought were wondering if he was Rudy Robbins. He got a good laugh out of that.

Chester

Hi Chester Larry and Ringo,

Next year marks the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar. Just for fun they carried out a census recently about what people knew about the Battle, some thought that Nelson and thwe Duke of Wellington were the same man, others thought that Trafalgar was in the North Sea. Some thought that the Battle was fought as part of the Norman Invasion of 1066, while other thought that the sigt of |Nelson column in Londons Trafalgar Square marke the site where the actual battle took place, (although how you got sixteen British and twenty odd French and Spanish battleships through the London Streets is mindboggling.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

I was thinking up a scenario for a remake of Scott of the Antarctic made by an American Film Company.

Its 1912, a raging blizzard and as Captain Scott and his companions are lying on their death beds in a fragile tent, Sylvester Stallone flies in in an atomic helicopter and to the tune of Eye of a Tiger flies them and the tent, to safety.

Who knows it might be a smash hit in the States.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Arthurarnell, Ringo, Chester.
History teachers got a job to do, pearl harbor rock band and trafalgar battle in London, to my knowledge WW2 is not that long ago, here in France they just celebrated D-day, students in several countries in Europe were asked about WW2 and the outcome was horrific, many didn't know what the D-day was.

In a way I guess that kids are just not interested.

We Danes came to know Lord Nelson from the other side, in 1801 the British fleet under comand of Admiral Sir Hyde parker with Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson sailed for Copenhagen to seize the Danish fleet, since the British were afraid that the neutral Denmark would leave the fleet to France, this led to a large battle that lasted for hours, many dead, the battle ended in a cease-fire, due to Lord Nelson.
In 1805 battle of Trafalgar, and in 1807 British fleet bombardment of Copenhagen.

I say History is great reading.
Larry

Quote

Originally posted by larrybusch@Nov 8 2004, 05:12 AM
In a way I guess that kids are just not interested.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfil [repeat] it."

George Santayana, Life of Reason (1905-06)

And let's face it, there's a lot of the past we don't want to repeat.

Greetings Chester/Larry/Arthur/Stumpy:

Chester/Larry, I fully agree with you both. If I ever have any children, they will be home schooled. I bet that pretty soon the Americans would have won the Battle of Britain and the British would have defeated the Japanese on Guadalcanal.

Chester, definaterly lookinig forward to seeing your signed photos. I find that some interesting info that Mr Robbins lives in Bandera. My family used to vacation there every summer at the Bandera River Ranch. I sure miss eating at: The Old Spanish Trail (home of the worlds longest continuous oak bar) and eating at The Purple Cow. This place is also great to go cycling.

Arthur, I definately hear ya on what you said. The same thing goes on over here on Pearl Harbor or ww2 in general.

Stumpy, you hit the nail on the head with your post too. TRK.

OK - I finally watched the latest version of "The Alamo" the other evening. I would have to say that if I was not familiar with the story, especially as presented by Duke's version, I would have to say that the story line was very murky indeed. I've heard said that this new version was short on characterization and I would agree. Many of the characters were glossed over and, in some cases, I wasn't even sure which person was which. Most of the actors were unknowns to me, so it was hard to focus on the characterizations. With so many participants in the story, Duke was wise to pick recognizable character actors for most of the speaking parts so the audience could readily identify with what was going on (when one could make out what was going on - if someone with no knowledge of the story of the Alamo watched this, they would be lost. I have a feeling that overseas audiences quicky passed out word that this wasn't a good movie simply because they were muddled about the story.) About the only positive element that I found in the movie was the characterization of General Santa Anna. And though the movie was called "The Alamo," the most cohesive part of Disney's version was the Battle of San Jacinto.
Duke's version wins HANDS DOWN - no contest at all.
Cheers - Jay <_<

Hi Jay, thanks for the review. My mind is made up and I aint going to watch thie version. IMO and sight unseen, this movie ist veri schlecht.

Hi,
Really been interested in your debate about the real Alamo, and the local issues, surrounding it!
The "Other" Alamo film, THE LAST COMMAND,
remember that one, Republic made as a get back at Duke film.
After watching THE ALAMO, this one almost seemed like a comedy, especially, when you compared the two Davy Crocketts.
That story line, to me, also seemed muddled!
I know Dukes Alamo, came in for some stick historically, but I know, who's version I beleive!,but then I would, wouldn't I!!!

Hi

Having seen all three of the Alamo pictures I have to say that despite all of the hype I quite enjoyed the new Alamo, I believe that if it had been made to stand on its own it would have gone down as a reasonable film not fantastically memorable but reasonable. I admit it can't stand comparison with John Wayne's Alamo, perhaps if Ron howard had stayed at the helm, things might have been different.

With regard to Tha Last Command again it is a picture I enjoyed and don't forget it could be said that this was John Wayne's first stab at making his Alamo dream, if things had turned out better with Yates and Republic he and not Sterling Hayden would have played Jim Bowie, the dream would have been realised earlier and saved John Wayne a considerable amount of money.

Regards

Arthur

Hi -
Disney's "The Alamo" is an ok film taken on its own terms. But in its attempt to be politically correct, it loses the sweep and grandeur of the myth and legend of the events (and the story of the Alamo siege and battle has taken on legendary status). Duke's version captured the happenings magnificently (even though facts were stretched or overlooked for entertainment's sake - but what movie doesn't do that), especially in the glorious filming by director of photography William H. Clothier. Duke was making a movie of entertainment focusing on broad vistas emblazoned with bold strokes. Duke's "The Alamo" makes a lasting impression!
Cheers - Jay

Regarding THE LAST COMMAND, I agree with Arthur.
Although I enjoyed the film, I fould I couldnt take it too seriously
Duke would have made THE ALAMO, with Republic,and saved all his money and stress!!
Republic of course, used lots of Duke's visions, for that film.