There are 31 replies in this Thread which has previously been viewed 8,573 times. The latest Post () was by Hondo Duke Lane.
Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!
QuoteOriginally posted by Hondo Duke Lane@Jul 16 2005, 11:32 AM
The government has stifled everything in the name of progress.
When I was in the service, we had a saying with which I totally agree: "Everything the government touches turns to sh** (excrement)."
Stumpy
That's why the bear went over the mountain, to see what he could see.
And why man crossed oceans, That's why we know where America is,
Because someone looked and said, I wonder what's on the other side,
If they had asked how much will it cost, you my friend, and millions and
millions of your fellow country men and women would be Europeans today.
It's good to do.
Emmanuel.
QuoteDisplay MoreOriginally posted by Emmanuel@Jul 16 2005, 12:37 PM
Stumpy
That's why the bear went over the mountain, to see what he could see.
And why man crossed oceans, That's why we know where America is,
Because someone looked and said, I wonder what's on the other side,
If they had asked how much will it cost, you my friend, and millions and
millions of your fellow country men and women would be Europeans today.
It's good to do.
Emmanuel.
[snapback]19089[/snapback]
As Viper says, I know where you're comin' from, Emmanuel, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
I'm a hardrock fiscal conservative and just hate to see the government spend money on what I think are foolish ventures. Those would include practically everything except national defense. 
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpy@Jul 16 2005, 02:36 PM
I'm a hardrock fiscal conservative and just hate to see the government spend money on what I think are foolish ventures. Those would include practically everything except national defense.[snapback]19095[/snapback]
Stumpy,
I, too, consider myself a hardrock fiscal conservative, but in working in and around the military/industrial complex located here in the Sunnyvale/Mountain View/Santa Clara area in California, I have seen many military weapon systems that I'm sure were designed and built from NASA experimentation. While I hate to see us waste $$$ also, many of these missile systems or what have you, that we depend on for our defense, can only be built with someone out in front, such as NASA, experimenting with these different techniques. Certainly, satellite technology has been a boon to our defense (and to our economy), and wouldn't be there without the space program. The knowledge and intelligence of the space program and the military co-mingle to bring about many of the good things we have today (including the Internet, which allows us to carry on this conversation right now 
). I don't know if the human race will eventually outgrow the Earth, but if we do, discovering alternatives might be possible if we know how things respond in zero gravity, etc. which we learn through our space program.
All that being said, I am not a rabid supporter, but can see the potential benefits.
I feel that defense is the only legitimate function of the government, and if we want to start cutting away the waste, there are certainly many other programs that are sucking us dry 
.
Chester 
QuoteOriginally posted by chester7777@Jul 17 2005, 08:56 AM
I feel that defense is the only legitimate function of the government,
Amen
Hi Chester and Stumpy
I'd like to say first that I'm not asking this to start a political discussion, but to understand how things work and how you think.
When you say that you "feel that defense is the only legitimate function of the government", I automaticly start to think about things like the justice system, the police, fire fighting and infrastructure which I see as things that need to to be centrally organized. I was just wondering if there is something I don't understand about what is government and what is an individual states responsibility or you have some other way of solving it?
I'm just curious. I won't be arguing against or agreeing with any responses.
Regards
Popol Vuh
QuoteDisplay MoreOriginally posted by Popol Vuh@Jul 17 2005, 08:33 PM
Hi Chester and Stumpy
I'd like to say first that I'm not asking this to start a political discussion, but to understand how things work and how you think.
When you say that you "feel that defense is the only legitimate function of the government", I automaticly start to think about things like the justice system, the police, fire fighting and infrastructure which I see as things that need to to be centrally organized. I was just wondering if there is something I don't understand about what is government and what is an individual states responsibility or you have some other way of solving it?
I'm just curious. I won't be arguing against or agreeing with any responses.
Regards
Popol Vuh[snapback]19158[/snapback]
I think what Chester and I are referring to is defense is the only legitimate function of the national government, PV. Over the 216 years the U.S. has existed, Washington D.C. has usurped almost all governmental powers in the United States, which is in direct violation of our Constitution. The U.S. Constitution grants very limited powers to the federal government but activist judges and politicians have, in effect, ignored the constitutional restrictions placed on the federal government and passed various laws taking away state powers and placing them at the federal level. This infuriates most conservatives like me because I'm a firm believer in the federalism (which is a system whereby the state governments and central government share power and responsibilities) laid out in our Constitution.
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpy@Jul 17 2005, 06:48 PM
I think what Chester and I are referring to is defense is the only legitimate function of the national government, PV. Over the 216 years the U.S. has existed, Washington D.C. has usurped almost all governmental powers in the United States, which is in direct violation of our Constitution. The U.S. Constitution grants very limited powers to the federal government but activist judges and politicians have, in effect, ignored the constitutional restrictions placed on the federal government and passed various laws taking away state powers and placing them at the federal level. This infuriates most conservatives like me because I'm a firm believer in the federalism (which is a system whereby the state governments and central government share power and responsibilities) laid out in our Constitution.[snapback]19159[/snapback]
Stumpy has stated it very well.
The functions you mentioned, Popol Vuh, are best left to local and state governments. Things like police, fire, and education should be handled strictly at a local level.
Infrastructure like roads could be considered part of a defense system and in a limited amount anyway, could be handled by the states, with federal assistance.
John Wayne's perspective, as far as I understand it regarding limited government (along with others, like Ronald Reagan) is very similar. I suspect many John Wayne fans think along those same lines, of limited government and corresponding lower taxes. It's obvious this perspective is currently losing ground in this country, but there are still a few of us die-hards left .
Chester
Thank you. Then I understand what you mean.
When you look at all the technological advances made in the past thirty or forty years, and then realize that at least 75 to 80% of them derive from the space program in some way or another, it becomes mind-boggling.
Cheers - Jay 
QuoteOriginally posted by Jay J. Foraker@Jul 18 2005, 04:35 PM
When you look at all the technological advances made in the past thirty or forty years, and then realize that at least 75 to 80% of them derive from the space program in some way or another, it becomes mind-boggling.
Cheers - Jay[snapback]19200[/snapback]
What's really mind boggling is when I pay the extortion money each April 15th.
I will concede that we have come a long way in technology and it has a lot to do with the space program. In my opinion, I think we could go much farther if the government stayed out. I see so much potential and we seem to stand still in so many ways.
We are still dependent on the automobile as our chief transportation for example. We've been using this mode of transportation for a hundred years, and yet we have computers that goes zillions and zillions times faster in the last 10 years. I know there are better ways and I think the government knows it too, but they won't do anything about it. And now we in America have seen gasoline prices increase over 4 times the amount in the last 20 years, for no good reason except for profit for someone.
This might be way off base. But having to spend anywhere from 30% to 60% of your income on transportation is ridiculous, when 20 years ago it was only 10%. You do the math. This is uncalled for, and I believe the government could solve this problem in a matter of minutes (alright let me say a few months). Especially if they leave us alone.
They have done a lot, but I contend we could do more.
Cheers B)
