Shenandoah

Still disagree with you on Shenandoah being an anti-war film. Just because his son gets killed makes it not an anti-war film. And being that this question is going off topic, what makes you think that The Guns of Navarone is an anti-war film? I have never seen The Way to the Stars (nor heard of it) nor have I seen Jarhead (which I never will since almost every other word spoken is an expletive) I will agree with you the The Deer Hunter is since it's almost venomous towards the American establishment.

ringo

this movie starts of as anti-war because he as the father didnt believe that it was his fight mainly because he didnt believe in it. when they are talking at the table he asks did the state put the food on the table no it was from their hard work that there was food on their table, when he talks to the doctor he asks again did the state give a titty for his young to suckle from - no. it is during the movie that he becomes to hate war more because of what he sees when he is searching for the young one, and the death of 2 of his sons and his daughter-in-law, so in a suttle way this is a anti-war movie.

cheers smokey

Hi All,
I agree that this is anti-war film but can't agree with the statement that all best films arre anti-war. And I don't lik The Bridge on the River Kwai. As for war and army films I think Ford cavalry trilogy was the best rmy films and his They were Expendable one of the best war film.
Regards,
Vera

I agree shenandoah is very much anti-war also a fine film.I don't get the anti-war message in the guns of navarone.cole if you could fill me in on your point of view.

Hi Smokey, Vera, Bill, OK I cave in but, I still don't entirely view it as anti-war. If I did, i'd have to say that for almost every war movies I have ever seen. A few exceptions would be movies like: Dawn Patrol w/ Errol Flynn, Objective Burma, Sands of Iwo Jima, The Longest Day, Operation Pacific, Action in the North Atlantic, The Fighting 69th, and Biggles. Im not entirely dumb on this subject and easily see that movies like: Sergeant York,All's Quiet on the Western Front (Both versions) Stalingrad: Dogs, do you want to live forever? A Time To Love and a Time To Die, The Enemy Below, Stalingrad, The Lighthorsemen, and Gallipoli; certainly are anti-war.

Cole, I agree with Bill, can you please elaborate the "anti" part of Guns of Navarone?

hi ringo

every war movie is very suttle in that they try not to glorify war, as one who has a brother who is about to go off to iraq (and i wished he didint have to go) i can see it. with shenandoah it shows the hardships and the ugly side to that particullar war from one mans view. but it also shows that no man can stand alone against a force greater than himself. on the whole it is a very enjoyable movie for many different reasons.

cheers smokey

Hi Carl

if you ever get the chance to see The Way To The Stars take the opportunity it was made in 1945 and it is a good film written by Anatole de Grimwolde and Terence Rattigan it stars Michael Redgrave John Mills Trevor Howard and Douglas Montgomery.
it tells the story of a British airfield during the early days of World War 2.

It has a fine supporting cast including Stanley Holloway and Bonar Colleno, a good theme and poetry. Made in 1945 I would rate it as being one of the best British films to come out of the Second World War.

Regards

Arthur

Quote from smokey

every war movie is very suttle in that they try not to glorify war,

cheers smokey

You've made a very good point, smokey. No one in his or her right mind wants to go to war, unless they figured out how to profit from it. Willing to go, maybe, but not wanting to.

While some of the trailers and movie posters for various war movies try to imply they are glorifying war, I feel many of them are dramatized documentary of real events. In particular, the war movies that John Wayne was in showed the down side of war, at the same time giving you an idea of what the events were that actually took place, and maybe the reasons people were willing to be there.

My favorite JW war movie is They Were Expendable. IMO, John Ford did a great job of showing how drab a war time situation could be, especially when you are in a retreating mode.

Chester

smokey! i wish your brother a safe tour and return from iraq. it's not easy bringing democracy to people who have no concept on how to achieve it.i don't know if there will ever be a time when there is no more wars. we never seem to learn our leasons as human beings.war causes pain and destruction.

thanks bill of pa

i know he will do his duty, we have been bought up with a sense of this responablity, he is doing his training for this tour, we as a family accept that he must go and mum has already started to get the things together to make her world famous (according to our family) christmas cake to send to him over there.

cheers smokey

Quote from smokey

hi ringo

every war movie is very suttle in that they try not to glorify war, as one who has a brother who is about to go off to iraq (and i wished he didint have to go) i can see it. with shenandoah it shows the hardships and the ugly side to that particullar war from one mans view. but it also shows that no man can stand alone against a force greater than himself. on the whole it is a very enjoyable movie for many different reasons.

cheers smokey

Hi Smokey, Arthur,

Smokey, I agree with you and you are correct in what you say, and I certainly do not doubt how you and your Brother might feel (also, please send him my best regards) but, I just can't see it in some movies. For example, Kelly's Heroes is supposed to be anti war, however, I think that one is more anti-establishment; more than anti-way. Now, take M*A*S*H, as a very good example of a movie that is anti-war. Paret of the reason I did not care much for the series, is that it gave a huge platform for Alan Alda and the guy who played Hunnicutt, to spout out their views on it. When that was allowed to run rampant for the last few years of the series, I could not stand to watch it tho--I did watch many throuout the years. Another movie that wasa very well made movie that is also anti-war is: Cross of Iron w/ James Coburn, James Mason, Maximilian Schell, Klaus Lowitsch and David Werner. This movie is about as anti-war as you can get, w/o ruining what the movie was supposed to be about--mainly two things: The terrible fighting and gruesome fighting going on all along the Eastern Front as well as the "war-of-wills" going on between the James Coburn and Maximilian Schell characters: Sergeant Steiner and Captain Stransky - respectively.

Sorry I got but, the point im trying to make is that everyone has their own opinion as to which war movie is anti-war. And I strongly disagree with Cole again, on that Full Metal Jacket is anti-war. The only thing in it that can be used as anything to do with anti-war-is the character-Joker.

Arthur, I will see if I can hunt down a copy of that movie you were describing, and will give it a watch. As movies about the RAF are also some favorites of mine, i'd love to see this movie. Also, it having Sir John Mills and Trevor Howard in it, certainly makes me want to see it. Sir John Mills, is my favorite actor from the U.K. He was absolutely brillient in: The Colditz Story and Dunkirk; among many others.

Quote from ColeThornton

That's exactly right chester. I think the great director John Huston put it best when he said, "If I ever make a pro-war movie then you can take me outside and shoot me."

It can be difficult to make an anti-war movie about World War II since most people agree that was a necessary war, it is much easier with Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. Of course a film doesn't have to be anti-military like Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" to qualify as anti-war.

Although I may be biased in saying this, I think the British war films made during the Second World War were better, and certainly less gung ho, than the American movies. I know "Objective Burma" was banned for about seven years in this country, and even then it was only released with an apologetic introduction.

My grandfather has just been given "The Way to the Stars" on DVD by his cousin, he bought it once before but it didn't have subtitles. He's allowed me to keep the film on VHS, along with "In Which We Serve".

Display More

If you want to see some war movies that are not anti-war, try watching:

Target Zero w/ Richard Conte, Charles Bronson, L.Q. Jones and Chuck Connors.

Prisoner of War w/ Ronald Reagan and Steve Forrest.

Time Limit w/ Richard Widmark and Richard Basehart.

Decision Before Dawn w/ Richard Widmark, Gary Merrill, Oscar Werner, Hans-Christian Blech, O.E. Hasse, Til Kiwi, Hildegard Knef and a very young: Klaus Kinski.

The more recent:

Big Red One w/ Lee Marvin, Mark Hamill and SIegfried Rauch.

A Bridge Too Far w/ Sir Sean Connery, Robert Redford, James Caan and Dirk Bogarde.

One anti war movie I forgot to mention to you is: Die Brucke (The Bridge) This movie is about as anti-war as they come.

Best regards-C.

Quote from ColeThornton

Yes "The Way to the Stars" is my grandfather's favourite war film, he saw it 50 times in the RAF (it was the only movie they had!) and the late Sir John Mills was his favourite actor.

According to Gregory Peck, who was one of the most active liberals in Hollywood, "The Guns of Navarone" was supposed to be an anti-war film. The moral arguments between his character and David Niven's character were written by blacklisted screenwriter Carl Foreman for that very reason. Peck said he regretted how the anti-war point had been lost on some viewers amid all the fighting.

Peck may have been liberal, but, he is not as liberal as you think. Try watching the Documentary that Peck did about his life (I can't remember the title) This Doc he made around ten or so years before his passing away, and in watching it, there was absolutely nothing in that Doc, that would make me believe that Peck is as liberal as you think. Also, you still have not pointed out just how The Guns of Navarone; is an anti-war movie. An inquiring mind want's to know.

Also-about Peck and that Doc I was telling you about above: The main thing I got from watching it was, that Gregory Peck is as you see him--meaning: What-you-see-is-what-you-get (WYSiWYG) that he was a true Gentleman and all-around nice person.

Have to say I prefer American War movies to British ones on World War II.

In regard, to A Bridge to Far being Anti war I would have to say no. It is a factual movie that is more graphic than earlier movies and has a downbeat ending. Attenborough paid tribute to the soldiers of Arnheim who nearly pulled of an military achievement which would have effectively shortened the war and saved many lives.

Guns of Navarone still escapes me it one of the earlier Alstair McClean novels which is more Boys Own Adventure than Anti War. What next Where Eagles Dare must be anti war!!

Bridge on the River Kwai is fine as a war movie except the silliest hammy acting by Alec Guinness who must have forgotten he was not in an Ealing Comedy. That scene's
whole impact is ruined and has many modern audiences in kinks at the end of it.


Mike

Cole, I forgot to mention that: Pork Chop Hill, is NOT an anti-war movie. This movie was based on the real-life experiances of the Infantry Captain (1st Lieutenant at the time of the battle), that Peck portrayed, as well as the book by SLA Marshall. I don't know how many "liberties" they might have taken in this film as the Korean War is not my military history specialty-tho im not exactly Dumb; as to the history about that conflict. Anyway, just do me a favor and please, do not try this on me dealing with WWII and especially the Eastern Front-or films depicting such.