Concern For Missing Members

Quote from SXViper

I know both Stumpy and ej as well as myself are not trying to stir anything up. Just trying to explain a few things as we see it.

Hell, guys, differences of opinion are what make the world go 'round. Like ej said, if you don't like a post, just ignore it.

Great post, Ejgreen!

Hi

I thought this topic would be 'interesting' and the comments well presented. it all illustrates the reason why this site is like it is and hopefully always will be. I can't imagine any reason to veto, censor or ban any member for making a comment. Now I'll take my moderaters hat off and get back to normal.

Regards

Arthur

Quote from Popol Vuh

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday, before anyone else had started to discuss the moderating and guidelines, but then I realized that there was something wrong here. Itdo had his reasons for leaving this message board and it seems pretty clear to me that he had no intentions of making a fuss about this. He didn't like the attitude/opinions of some people here so he chose not to post. He is then contacted by a PM, which he replies to and the answer is then posted publicly, which I feel is wrong. I sent a PM to Chester yesterday, but he has not responded to it so I am now pointing this out here. If Chester asked itdo's permission to use this answer then it is okay, but since he has not replied I can't know if he has. Wether things should be moderated or not is a question I will not go too much into, but if you read what itdo says it is people who post things without any foundation that annoys him. Personal attacks against members of the Wayne family might be considered slander and if so it would be illegal regardless of having freedom of speech.

I know that the answer was posted with the best of intentions, but I still feel it is very wrong. PM's are personal. I am sure that itdo is quite capable of speaking for himself and that he would have done so if this is what he wanted.

Regards
Popol Vuh

PV,

First of all, I would like to apologize to you for not responding to your PM, which I had read, but hadn't had time to answer. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. Regarding itdo's communication with me, it wasn't a PM, but an email (not that it makes much difference as far as seeking his permission to share here - I confess, I did not ask permission, and perhaps I should have; in the instance of the other two notes I shared, they were of a much more general nature, and I don't think the authors would mind that I shared their response to me. In the case of itdo, there was more detail and perhaps I should not have posted it all, and if I "spoke" out of turn, then I apologize to Roland, in case he is reading all of this as a guest). It was not my intent to unnecessarily disclose anything of a private nature.

Now, to all -
Many have asked over the past couple of years about what happened to Roland, and I have been at a loss as to how to explain it to folks (though I have been aware of his feelings that whole time). I have received other letters of a similar nature from him, expressing basically the same things, after I have contacted him and encouraged his return to the board, in a friendly, non-pressured manner. It seemed that his own words might convey his reasons for leaving, much better than anything I could have typed. I don't know if anyone else has asked Roland why he left; if so, no one else has seen fit to share it here, though several have asked.

Though Roland's English skills are excellent, he admits it is not his native tongue (quite a surprise to me!). It is possible that a few things are simply misunderstandings (for example, I don't think anyone intends to literally wrestle a member of the Wayne family to the ground to get an answer about something, that is only an idiom). However, as others have mentioned, I also think that there is somewhat of a different mindset between Europeans and Americans with regard to censorship.

In a previous communication with itdo, I mentioned that freedom of speech was far more important than censorship of the board (I'm sure there are some who might be surprised by that ). By the same token, as a moderator, I'm always trying to keep things on an even keel. I have been accused of both moderating too much and moderating too little. It's a fine line we moderators walk . . . .

Arthur and ejgreen, thank you both for your excellent posts. I didn't mean for all you folks to wear out your keyboards on this topic, but I do appreciate the comments and thoughts you have shared here.

As far as gaining the support of the Wayne family and/or Wayne Enterprises - we have tried many times, and not even gotten the courtesy of a response. If there is a better forum regarding John Wayne anywhere around, we have yet to find it, and believe me, we have looked. This message board might just be a little too "wild and wooly" for them to officially endorse, but I also think one that was mild and bland, without any critical thought, might be so boring that no one would hang out there .

So . . . just to allay any fears of being quoted without permission, I promise you all I will be more judicious in the future and ask permission first.

Chester

This is certainly one of the most interesting topics on this board for quite some time and one of the most engrossing.

I had contacted Roland about 7-8 months ago regarding why he had left the board so I was aware of his reasons for leaving although he did hint that he may return in the future.

There are so many issues to address in relation to this issue that I don't quite know where to begin and while I like Roland and thought his posts were quite good I don't think he's exactly covered himself in glory on this issue.

Chester pointed out in an earlier post that one of his reasons for leaving was because he felt that the level of discussions on this board were not of a high enough standard for him to be associated with. As a member of this board I found this comment both disappointing and downright condescending.

In addition to this he claims he has issues with some of the content on this site primarily an isolated topic on 'Brokeback Mountain' which took place long after he left, while I didn't take part in this discussion I felt that if people didn't like the movie they had a right to express their view.

His final reason for leaving the board was due to the treatment of the John Wayne family and on this area I do agree with Roland. There has been a lot of negative comments written on this board regarding the family which have generally been unbalanced and unfair and perhaps this is something the moderators should review. I understand the family from a John Wayne fan standpoint have not exactly been very proactive by not replying to emails and by delaying the releases of his movies but when respected authors of books etc praise the family then maybe collectively as a board we are missing something.

Misinformation is always going to be a problem on messageboards and I know Roland and myself (as do many others on this board) again agreed on this issue that there were not enough facts regarding John Wayne and his movies. Facts and substance have too often been substituted with inaccuracies or general unsubstantiated stories which do nothing for the credibility of the board or John Wayne.

Despite having some disagreements with the moderators on this board on a number of occasions I feel that they do a good and thankless job. I do have some gripes with the moderators however my main one being the two completely inactive moderators namely Reasr and LibertyV. Is is not time that either there was a reduced number of moderators or these two moderators were replaced with members who actually bother to participate to the board. Its a little strange that two members who are rarely and in LibertyV's case never on the board to hold such a position, if there is a reason for their absence that I am unaware of then I do apologise otherwise their positions are moderators has become unattainable. Incidentally its not good enough for either of these members to simply reply to this post and state that they are still active, what is needed is continual long term contributions from these people.

Regarding politics being discussed on this board I personally have no problem with it provided people with opposing views do not start insulting each other. Stumpy has appropriately moved most political discussions to the politics thread which I feel is a good idea. I think most of what has been said on that thread is perfectly acceptable within an open forum however I do have one issue. Most of the threads are from a conservative perspective, I posted a comment on this thread asking if there were any non Republicans who wished to post within this thread as I remember members on this board from the past claiming to be democrats. I was disappointed to be told that this was an inappropriate question to ask and that next I would be asking what religion people were. One of the reasons I asked the question was to try and ensure non Republicans did not feel isolated or that the ‘Politics’ thread was a no go area and I’m sure most of the main contributors to this topic such as Stumpy would have no problem debating with democrats etc. I felt the response to my comment represented a discomfort within the board, indicating that if a non conservative joined in the discussion the would be ostracised, debates would get heated and nasty and the board would degenerate into complete chaos. I think that this is completely unfair and I believe from my experience on the board that most members are mature and intelligent enough to accept people with different personal and political perspectives.

With regards to Arthur’s post I am in general disagreement with much of the general content on it. I do believe that there is a place on this board for discussions on past conflicts such as the second world war. If we are to stay away from such discussions on this board then we are in danger of loosing grasp of reality and the board is in danger of being deemed as irrelevant and dull. I would be offended if comments were banned relating to current or ex service personnel and their experiences of the military.

I like Roland have had difficulties with the board in the past but I have tried to resolve them, Roland has made to effort what so ever to inform the board as to why he left. His last post gave no indication that he was having problems with the board and it seems that he has ‘thrown the toys out off the pram’ on this issue. He has refused to accept that this is the largest online site relating to John Wayne, he refuses to give the board any credit for the way it has evolved, he has dismissed the comments from members of the board to be of an insufficient intellect, and he is quite adamant that he wont return. I would like Roland to return to the board as I believe that he has left a void that has never quite been filled, however I wont beg him to come back and maybe its time to draw a line under Roland and other members who have left the board and move on.

Very good post, Rob.

Thanks Jim

I tried to be as even handed as possible and above all honest, I know my post will not please some on this board but I didn't purposely intend to offend anyone.

Quote from Robbie

I didn't purposely intend to offend anyone.

We never do, Rob. I think our biggest problem is that we're incapable of dissembling.

Hi Jim you could be right.

With regards to this topic its now over to the moderators for them to address the concerns etc that have been raised by several members of the board and to take whatever action they deem appropriate.

Im always a day late in the ability to reply but, great postings from all of you--all very well said.

Dittos to EJ, Chester & The Mrs, Stumpy, Arthur and Robbie; in particular.

Interesting thread. Everyone has posted valid points of views, buy as someone before has pointed out earlier you have to have a thick shin when your interacting with others in a very public forum. I take very few thing personally, and can generally take it or leave it.

All I can say is I hate to have anyone leave the site over bad feelings, but at the end of the day, leaving might be the best thing for both the member and the rest of the board.

Quote from Kevin

All I can say is I hate to have anyone leave the site over bad feelings, but at the end of the day, leaving might be the best thing for both the member and the rest of the board.

Wholeheartedly agree, Kevin. If someone is such a prima donna and so thin-skinned that they can't accept some of the things that are said on a public forum, because the opinions don't agree with their own, then they need to seek satisfaction elsewhere.

I did that very thing recently - as a political junkie, I sought out and joined a forum to argue politics (one of my favorite pastimes ) but it soon sunk in that most of the people on there were much farther left on the political scale than I am, so I left.

Believe me, folks, when I say that there are a lotta people in this world, and even in this country, who hate the United States and everything it stands for. I got so damned mad on that forum that I thought it best that I leave, for the sake of my blood pressure if nothing else.

Hi Kevin

I agree with you in general but I do feel that this topic has raised some rather important issues that should be addressed.

1. I do believe that Roland was correct and that the board does need to review its treatment of the John Wayne family. Although I do believe that constructive criticism is good I do feel that all the facts are not always given on the board therefore maybe its time to readdress the balance.

2. Inactive moderators, I personally feel that its unfair that 'Reasr' and 'LibertyV' are classed as moderators while contributing nothing to the board when all other moderators have made huge contributions to the board both via moderating duties and via posts. Is it not time that these two members were replaced are simply relieved of their duties?

Just doing some browsing, boredom I guess, out of our 887 members, about 350 have been inactive for over 2 years, at least none of those are moderators. If we were to purge those members, is it possible to get a shoutbox on the main page or could that be done without purging? I use them elsewhere and thought it might be nice if a few people are online at the same time they could say HI in a shoutbox. Just an idea...

This could be more of a suggestion so move if necessary. What do you all think?

Well it seems the members have been wondering about others who have not posted for sometime, so I feel I should get you up to date on why I haven't been around lately.
Now this is a long story, so I will try to trim it up to not waste a lot of members time.
In 2004 ( yep this goes back that far) we suffered a fire at the homestead, lost the barn, the big shed, a few other outbuildings and almost lost the house. We were away visiting relatives when the chore boy I had to feed the horses and check on things, was driving past and noticed the blaze. The other two neighbors who can see our place were at a wedding, so it was sometime before it was discovered.
Sad day, besides the structural damages, worst part of all was losing the 15 month old Beau. Had named him after Duke's horse. Was born X-MAS day 2002. Anyway had insurance to replace the buildings and material things, nobody was home so no one was hurt obviously, but you can't replace a animal, and this little fella had a personality. It took sometime to rebuild, and I tried doing it all myself. Forgot to mention lost the computer too.
Well after rebuilding, went back to work like there would be no tommorrow. Jump ahead now to October 2005, I was on my way home on my motorcycle when 5 deer decided to run in front of me, and check my defensive driving skills. Unfortunately hit three of them and have been re-habbing and getting back to some kind of normalcy. That in itself has taken about 14 months. The time since then has been getting back in the swing of things you might say.
I apologize to the other members who were used to seeing me post here, but you were all never far from my thoughts. Alot of the real newcomers have realized by now "THAT THIS IS A FAMILY. A FRATERNITY DEDICATED TO THE MEMORY OF A MAN WE ALL CHERISH.
As I said earlier you were all never far from my thoughts. Would like to say I hope you and yours are all fine, and that your doctor is going hungry.
It feels good to be back here, and though some may have thought we rode off into the sunset (and we darn near did). We are God willing back to stay .

Regards
Ethan

Ethan,

Wow, that is some story you shared!! We're glad to have you back in the fold, and sorry to hear of so many troubles, but happy you've made it through this far.

Thanks for filling us in, and welcome back!!

Chester and the Mrs.

Hi Ethan

Glad to see you back after enough problems to try a saint.

I think this puts it all into perspective.

Once again I hope that everything is now ok.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Ethan

Sorry to hear about your troubles and hope things goe well for you from now on.

Best

Mike

Damn Ethan... 5 deer and you hit 3. The odds were certainly not in your favor that day. Being from South Dakota and now in West Central Illinois I've hit a few deer in my life along with some ring-neck pheasants and various predators. Just glad your around for the big event next month. We'll post plenty of photos for ya in case you can't come.

Sorry to say though that my doctor makes a bundle off me and my insurance every year. But that's the price of getting old. Maybe some satisfaction in that they have to write these big fat checks for malpractice insurance every month. I think my doctor told me once he pays over $200,000 a year for his.

Stay well and welcome back.

Hi Ethan, sorry for all the problems you had, but I am glad things are now definately looking up for you and the family. And I thought I had troubles???